Travelling after Brexit
Comments
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Do holiday makers really need EHIC ?
EuroT - I realise your comment applied to visitors, i.e.holidaymakers, but those ex-pats who live abroad face huge financial problems if there is no reciprocal arrangements. My brother lives in France and has skin cancer and needs ongoing treatment. He worked all of his working years in the UK and paid his dues so I find it hard to just accept a "who cares?" attitude. He hasn't lived long enough in France to qualify for full "free" treatment.
So there is more to think about than just travellers problems. The reason I bring this up in this discussion is that I worry about comments such as this then becoming established as the norm in others without the thought of the consequences for others.
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Wherenext, I am sorry to hear of your brother's illness, but there is a difference between the health and medical needs of those British citizens who live in France and those who simply go there on holiday.
Those who live there can obtain permanent resident status (as can French citizens who live here in the UK) - both of them can then have open access to health services in their adopted countries. Those of us who simply go on holiday need medical insurance.
I do wish your brother well.
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Thanks, EuroT. The whole business of reciprocation is a fraught one, particularly if No Deal is the end result. I am well aware of the difference between those who have residence abroad and EHIC but sometimes people fall slightly short of the relevant years of residency.
We have all seen and met people who think Medical Insurance is an unnecessay expense but I always have a belts and braces approach. I do hope the EHIC system survives.
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I the EHIC cuts both ways so perhaps we should take some comfort from that. If it ceases to exist for Brits going abroad the same is equally true of European visitors coming here so I would have high expectations that the scheme will continue regardless of what happens to Brexit as its in everyone's interest?
David
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But then again she is on holiday under blue skies and has you to cheer her up david so not too bad overall
But an interesting point arises, I've not been following your story too closely but was your wife's condition done over there or before travel over here.
My question is EHIC designed to cover medical treatment for acute conditions that are sustained before travel over here?
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It seems to me the problem with Spain is that it doesn't seem to have a "National" way of doing things so the administration of the treatment you get will vary from region to region which is not particularly helpful to those that travel from place to place. Will be interested to know how you get on with the C&CC insurance in terms of claiming costs back. Are you going to ring them?
David
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I read today that the ETIAS scheme may not actually come into force until 2022. The article was by Simon Calder who does seem to know what he's talking about.
I also didn't realise that you have to declare where you will be spending your first night. Depending on where and when we disembark I'm not entirely sure I could tell them and I am sure that would apply to several CT members plus hundreds more touring folk.
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That reminds me of the time we arrived in Laos and communist rules said I had to state where I was staying - I had no idea but copied an address from Lonely Planet and gave it to the guard. He smiled and said My brother has a better guest house than that - and flagged down a pick up truck to take us to his brother's place.
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The two big questions for me which neither the Club or anyone else I have asked can answer is about the ability to travel as we do. Perhaps someone here may have a better idea.
We generally travel for May & June, 60 days, return to the UK for July & August and then return to the continent for September and October, a further 60 days.
If we finally leave with an agreement that allows us to travel as now then it wont be an issue but the current ETIAS proposals say:
How many times can I enter the EU with an ETIAS?
You can enter the Schengen member states for as many times as you want, for as long as your ETIAS is valid, and you have not stayed more than 90 days in a 180 day period.We clearly have no problems with the first trip, but as there is no information on the 180 days, i.e. when it counts from etc we are likely to fall foul on our second trip as we shall have exceeded the 90 days if it is a running total and also broken the 180 days rule too if it counts from the day of first entry in any calendar year.
There are lots of us here that do very similar trips and some even spend much longer time abroad without complying with the rules, even now as EU members. (I'm sure oblivious to the rules rather than deliberate)
The second unanswered question is about taking personal use food into the EU. Like most, I am sure, we fill the fridge/freezer to capacity so it keeps cold on the overnight ferry crossing and we also carry dry foods for the trip until we shop. Will we be allowed to do the same? With no specific agreement I doubt it.
And there is no definitive person or body to ask, or one that will respond with knowledge. Even HERE it does not give you such information and no contact point either.
Would we have to apply for a Schengen Visa? The information is not clear really on how many trips you can make using the one visa & they are again for trips up to 90 days. Would we need one each trip because we were doing 120 days in total? Who knows
Then comes Croatia, a non Schengen country, what will apply there? There is no clear information on whether I need an international Driving Permit for this country as it is not listed in either permit.
I would have reasonably expected the Club to find out such information for the benefit of all members but when I asked they didn't know and weren't going to ask
Any informed ideas out there?
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there is another aspect to this also....taking dogs into the EU.....
after the 31st of December it could be possible that dogs, cats, or ferrets, leaving the UK bound for the EU will have to be vaccinated against RABIES. This is not a simple process and could take months, we have gone thru this process
1. pet has the vaccine at the vets
2. 1 month after vaccine return to vets to take blood sample
3. blood sample sent to lab to test for rabies anti bodies, when we did ours last year the vet was able to use UK labs so tests returned within 10 days, my vet tells me that as of 2021 blood samples will have to be sent to EU labs as ours will loose creditation, results could take days or months, who knows ?
4. once the tests have been returned and hopefully ratified and certificate issued, the animal has to achieve a certain level of anti bodies in the blood to pass the test, you then have to wait 3 months before you can travel into the EU.
5. if the process fails you have to restart the whole process from scratch, probably your vet giving a higher strength vaccine, however, again my vet told us that some animals never achieve the correct level of anti bodies, our fido passed on second time of asking, so now we have the certificate we are ok
Not saying this will happen, but it is a distinct possibility when we leave the EU on the 31st December
Sorry could not answer any of your questions and i dont think anybody right now is able to give a definitive answer, however, my thoughts are......would countries like Spain be willing to put in danger all the monies they receive from Brits Abroad, not just tourists but also all the expats that currently live in Spain who have no residency permit etc....?????, you may have to apply for a visa, which could overload the Spanish authorities and they make make a nominal charge but 80 euros for a visa as has been suggested ???
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Thanks for your comments Rufs, we used to travel with a cat so know how the rules are likely to change re pet passport unless we get an agreement otherwise. The problem used to be in France if you spent more than 3 months there you had to have a rabies vaccination every year regardless if your UK rabies vaccination was one that lasted 2 years. This ended up with immigration refusing you to travel out and having to go to a vet for another vaccination.
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Hi David,
Thanks a million for that email & the link. At least I now know that it is almost certain that the 180 days rule is the preceding 180 days so you cannot spend more than the 90 days in the EU in the preceding 180 days. Based on our travelling it means we would be overstayed by 30 days on our second trip each year but they wouldn't know untill we arrived at the ferry immigration terminal in Belgium before we boarded. I wonder what would happen then.
I've searched for all sorts of things and never found that information before and even emailed the EU, to no avail.
Yes Croatia is a difficult one, I'm guessing that any time there is not included because it is not a Schengen country, as yet. There must be some ability though to get a VISA to stay longer. I mean I wouldn't want to do it but I think you can stay in the USA for up to 6 months at a time. I know we could in Cayman when we visited, it just needed their agreement and proof of income etc.
I know if a foreigner in the UK was given 'Indefinite Leave to Remain' in the UK by Immigration if they caught a ferry to Belgium on one of those 2 night dashes then they couldn't legally just come back in without applying for IDR again as they had left the country and it started off from scratch again.
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Hi
R&S, as far as I know there will be a delay in the ETIAS scheme until at least the end of 2021. This will give time for all the schengen countries to have systems in place to check all people exiting the EU. The info. from a Spanish Policia friend is that from then any over stayers will be fined accordingly.
We stay in Spain for 5+ months every winter so to be legal we are obtaining residencia in what is now called the TIE or Tarjeta de Identidad de Extranjero. Foreigners identity card to you and me. There are obviously drawbacks to this ie. You have to change your driving license to Spanish, you need adequate healhcare insurance (ehic won't work after Dec.2020) and you can't have UK reg. vehicles legally for more than 90 days. But, for us, as we intend to relocate to Spain soon it's quite straightforward.
Cheers
JK
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I know if a foreigner in the UK was given 'Indefinite Leave to Remain' in the UK by Immigration if they caught a ferry to Belgium on one of those 2 night dashes then they couldn't legally just come back in without applying for IDR again as they had left the country and it started off from scratch again.
Hi Roy
As a Dutch national who has lived in the UK for over 40 years and who was given ILR on arrival in the UK, and now "Settled Status" I don't think that's correct. If I wanted to do one of those 2-night mini cruises from Hull to Rotterdam or Zeebrugge I wouldn't have to re-apply, as I am now no different to a UK national in that respect.
I think you may be thinking of a 2 or 5 year absence (from gov.uk):
If you stay outside the UK, Ireland or the Crown Dependencies (Isle of Man, Guernsey and Jersey), for 2 or more years at a time your ILE or ILR will automatically end. If you have been granted settled status under the EU Settlement Scheme, your leave will automatically end if you stay outside the UK, Ireland or the Crown Dependencies (Isle of Man, Guernsey and Jersey) for 5 or more years.
If this happens you will need to apply for entry clearance as a returning resident before coming back to live in the UK. Further information is available in the guidance on returning residents visas.
Sorry for going off topic, but just wanted to clear this up.
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Hi InaD, perhaps I was not clear enough in my use of the word foreigner, I should have said non EU national. You of course are an EU National and can come and go as you please and have now got settled status re the Brexit process. If I were lets say from an African country, as opposed to an EU country, and had been granted ILR as far as I was told by Immigration officers when I was working that meant it was ILR to stay in the UK. If I wanted to go on a holiday abroad and then come back my ILR would be cancelled and I would have to apply again. Of course for the past umpteen years anyone being a National of an EU state didn't have these restrictions. I have witnessed this very scenario happening so took it to be correct, hopefully those are still the rules at this time and I haven't misled anyone. Sorry in advance if I am wrong.
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Hi JK, yes I was aware that the implementation date was now delayed, but thanks. Having spent a lot of time in Spain some years ago I appreciate the different rules there, the ones you are referring too I think were introduced in 2012, before that it was 180 days I think. We now just visit as a consequence. It's good to see you know and are willing to abide by their rules as most non Spanish long term holidaymakers from all manner of nations don't. It is any 90 days in a year so if you have frequent holidays it soon adds up and if you know you will be there for more than the 90 days you need to register on day one, as you've said.
The problem us Brits had was we have to pass through immigration, being an island, and they check the passport history and sometimes question you as to where you have been for such a long time, as has happened to me. My German and Dutch friends don't have this problem because there are no border controls, except for entering Croatia, so unless someone was investigating them specifically using the likes of ANPR no one knows when the left home or returned. ETIAS will of course change all that for us again and we will be even more accountable, for good reasons too I might add.
Regards, Roy
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Hi Roy, I understand what you mean; it's just that over the years we've often joked with friends and family about me being a "foreigner" and as I do still have my Dutch nationality, in essence I am one
I think the ILR rules for different people are quite complex, but I don't think a non-EU national would have to re-apply after a short holiday abroad, I believe there is a 180-day rule, in that you have to spend a minimum of 180 days in any 12 months within the UK to keep the ILR, but I don't know the finer points of it all.
Apologies for going a bit off topic.
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Have no problem.
Live in Germany have both the UK and German nationality. going to the UK use my British Passport returning to Europe or travelling around Europe wip out my german Passport best of both worlds.
have had no problems upto now
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You wouldn't have had problems up to now as we're in the transition and pre-Brexit arrangements are still in place.
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I came across this article recently and thought it might be of interest to those who plan to visit the EU in 2021 :
As I understand it, the article is aimed at people who reside in the Netherlands and are retuning home following a visit to the UK. But it states that importing dairy or meat products into the NL and indeed the EU generally from non EU countries ( which the UK will be ) is forbidden. There are also limits on alcohol.
The article refers to bringing items back in the suitcases of visitors to the uk, but obviously the regulations will also be applied to LV fridges etc. so taking bacon or milk and cheese abroad could get you into trouble from January onwards.
Yes, there are supermarkets abroad, I know, but most people travel with some milk on board for the journey at the very least. Just something to keep an eye on I thought.
How it works in the opposite direction of travel is also possibly problematic, who knows at this stage..
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That could cause a big queue if they decide to inspect the fridges of every caravan/motorhome as they come off the ferry. Can't see any of us taking alcohol "into" France.
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Can't see any of us taking alcohol "into" France.
We did last year, we had an open wine box with very little consumed. It was a little bit like coal to Newcastle.😂 Currently it would be a bit like that with food, we would transfer unused items from the house fridge to the van. That might need rethinking, will have to run everything down and just go with an emergency meal of dried pasta and a jar of sauce. In general we don't take much, stopping at, or in caravan days visiting a supermarket at the end of the first days traveling.
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