Service stopover
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I very much agree ,it would be very remiss of those that do abuse the area to do so in view of others
Last year we used the P&R at Whitby but the mens toilets were closed and being deep cleaned because as the contractors advised two of the cubicles had been used to dump toilet waste from a "camper/campers"and they were very badly soiled as whoever had done it had missed the pans with most of it
Ps like is seen at club site corps at times
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Surely the only relevant experience in the context of the topic of this thread is the experience of club members and site users, whether they be caravanners or MH-ers or trailer renters
Whether we’re part of the wild camping community or not, we are being asked here if the club should set up a service stopover scheme on its sites. Personally, I don’t much bother either way but, as a site user, I see more cons than pros and I also recall what the club has previously said.
To then drag in the issue of such a scheme helping local communities is a red herring. The club is in the business of selling pitch nights. Helping wild campers or communities is not within the club’s remit and what happens within communities elsewhere has no bearing on whether the club should or shouldn’t provide such a scheme. This is about the club, not other possible providers.
The problems are seemingly caused by irresponsible wildcampers who are unlikely to fork out a few quid to use the facility, let alone pay membership fees.
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Why this emphasis on wild camping? There are now many official overnight areas for motorhomes to stop but with no or inconvient dump and fill facilities. I find it hard to believe the Club could not find a way to open its sites to MEMBERS to use the MSVPs. I even see it as a support to motorhomes using a CL where it may not be so easy to dump and fill. Could it also not support the introduction of CLs which only have a parking area?
peedee
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Er ... I think your "note taking" has gone a bit awry BB given that I've not taken part in this discussion, nor intend to further since everything that can be said has already been said ad nauseum, other than my post on the first page. Still, good to know you're thinking of me ( but, please, in future, if you're going to name me again, get your facts right first!
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To MM, no problem. Yes one daughter still comes along especially as it's a very cheap holiday. So far it has cost her three bags of chips!
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+1 to all your points TW.
The club should look after its core customers, those that use clubs sites and not provide services for those that would not use them for their intended purpose.
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I look into the mist of the future again and see:-
The reported swing to motorised caravan use continuing to the point that a trailer caravan is a rarity outside a static site. The Caravan Club has found more profitable uses for its land than renting out patches on a daily basis and sold off for housing and statics.
However, to cater for the "wild" campers in motor caravans it has established a huge network of dump and fill points spaced only a few miles apart throught the whole of the country. These consist purely of a small building housing the only necessary facilities of a pan and a tap. Who remembers the "AA" boxes of the previous century?
And just to establish credentials, I don't consider parking a motor caravan to be "wild camping" since I have done the latter. Though I did think at the time that having a Land Rover, a tent, a pile of loose gear, and a spade could possibly be improved upon slightly.
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The emphasis on wild camping is pretty obvious. The OP does not wish to pay fees when she can use 'lovely free overnight parking stops'. I don't see that motorhomers etc having problems with waste water disposal on some cls is a problem for others to solve as the solution should be pretty simple even if they consider it to be a nuisance. Similarly if they use a parking alternative that does not provide what they require I see that as a problem for them to deal with rather than CC.
As for supporting CLs that only provide parking - why when most members appear to want more even if only a waste point and water?
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Aren't kids great
If out with my kids I usually pick up the tab but what amused me was my eldest daughter a few months ago. Sometimes when she travels the 40 miles to see youngest and two nephews they will go for a meal and eldest pays even though she is out of work and her only income at present (now has health problems) is some capital interest and her holiday caravan let. The kids have a very hearty appetite and youngest daughter invariably chooses the largest and most expensive mixed grill when somebody else is paying.
In December, whilst I was away with OH, one of the grandsons had to attend hospital in Manchester from home in Leigh. My eldest had to leave Rhyl by 5.30 am to do the total 80 mile journey in rush hour with half an hour to get the kids on board for a 9am appointment. AS a thank you my youngest offered to pay for a meal. Apparently she was shocked when eldest, out of devilment, ordered something expensive and youngest said 'you don't normally have that!',
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I also recall what the club has previously said.
To then drag in the issue of such a scheme helping local communities is a red herring. The club is in the business of selling pitch nights. Helping wild campers or communities is not within the club’s remit and what happens within communities elsewhere has no bearing on whether the club should or shouldn’t provide such a scheme. This is about the club, not other possible providers.
But the market is changing and the Club has changed its name toiwards meeting the increase in motorhome use. However as stated in an earlier thread that is all it has done and it is not enough in my view. Every year I use the Club's facilities less and less and if it wasn't for the CL network, which when possible I favour, I would kick my 30 year membership into touch.
peedee
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The club can only be expected to cater for the majority interest of those using its sites and CLs or at least a large minority. Not for those who prefer not to use the sites because they wish to pay no more than £6 to £10 a night. That range though does buy some well located overnight parking I suppose.
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Try a visit to Shetland where all the camp sites are community run, there is an example there of small sites providing good overnight or longer stay facilities. These little camp sites are an excellent community resource and they're not expensive but they are an example which provides off road facilities for all types of outfit, tents, vans and caravans. Shetland started from scratch and encourages visitors to use the sites. In places like mainland Scotland there are plenty of sites for overnight stops or longer which negates the need to park up without permission on someone's land and the request for the use of facilities without an overnight stop is already provided by the other club. If this is what some van owners want it's already there for a fee without making further requests for provision from CAMC which I don't think is too keen on promoting wild camping. Personally I prefer an unimpeded view of Ben "Fogle" (joke) I think most go to certain places in the uk to view the wilder landscapes not the wild campers.
Shetland Community site photo.
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...but with well designed, well placed MHSPs I've not noticed congestion on any such equipped sites.
again, CC is a long way behind the (IMV) 'best' designed (and placed) of the type.
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The markets are changing? How?
Probably more people, MH and caravans, using club sites that's how.
Check late availability. Over the Easter weekend on the Saturday night, there are NO pitches in the Cotswolds, NO pitches in the lake District, NO pitches in East Anglia (including ferry meadows), NO pitches in East Midlands or the peak District. There is none north west. One pitch at durham if you are quick.
So (apart from prices not putting people off) why should these core customers be put out by passing MH? And, again, why should the club offer services to people who won't stay on site?
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...but with well designed, well placed MHSPs I've not noticed congestion on any such equipped sites.
Any examples of such 'well equipped sites' in UK? The service points on CC sites have not been located or had access designed to accommodate passing trade.
I have no idea what planning/licensing arrangements might be required to provide a service for passing trade. I doubt if a daily handful of those taking it up is likely to warrant the initial and ongoing expenditure of providing such.
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+1
Indeed it appears that, like the car parks into Aires concept, a small number want cheaper services at the expense of the majority, while at the same time also inconveniencing that majority.
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Also, no matter how well designed or positioned a MHSP is, congestion is inevitable when several, or even only a few, folk want to use it at the same time.
By its very nature, topping up and emptying tanks takes several minutes and queues can quickly form. I know some will say they’ve never seen a queue but I have at different sites on various occasions.
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Possibly because these 'passing MH's' are ALSO members and pay their Annual fees the same as everyone else. AND are not looking to deny you your pitch. So why the animosity ? Dont think the OP was suggesting extra investment or facilities just use of site facilities for a short period (for a nominal fee). And strictly only Members , so no need for them to require a Staff member following them. So where is the extra cost ? No further planning licences etc., would be required as these are members, using Club facilities.
No need to queue just wait until the one at the MSP is gone before driving over, providing they are not Showering/parking there.
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Check late availability. Over the Easter weekend on the Saturday night, there are NO pitches in the Cotswolds, NO pitches in the lake District, NO pitches in East Anglia (including ferry meadows), NO pitches in East Midlands or the peak District. There is none north west. One pitch at durham if you are quick.
All the more reason to have more choice.
peedee
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You are not responding to a post that relates directly to the OP but to one that is a response to BB.
I have no idea if further planning would be required or not and that would depend on any changes needed, but staff would be required to check membership etc, admit and probably to facilitate exit.
No idea what a nominal sum would be - £10? Certainly not less than £5 as otherwise the candle is not worth the game!
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CLs and CSs do have waste water disposal and it just needs a little provision on your part. Also I thought that, unlike some if using Brit Stops or car parks etc, that you could carry enough water for at least 4 days but perhaps I am wrong.
If you really want a site with proper dump facilities there are no doubt some left even at a busy period.
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Just as an example we were delayed at Old Hartley recently because a foreign rental campervan blocked the MHSP by attempting to fill up the onboard tank with a watering can (a watering can is fine on site by the way.) We noticed half the water was pouring down the side of the van, it was like filling a pond with a tea cup. Multiply that by X at many sites and it won't be much fun for on site motorhome users. We had to give up on emptying and re-filling as we were blocking the road whilst waiting. Usually we just leave but for once we had decided to fill and empty on the way out, no chance!
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