Not stopping but would like to pay to use showers
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OK BB serious question just interested, if you fill one cassette where do you or one store it?
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yes, assume so....empty cassettes, do some washing, fill with fresh water, empty grey tank, take long, long shower......
im sure this is business as usual for many wild campers, pop into a site every 5-6 days...to see how the great washed live
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some upmarket vans come with two cassettes and a special (airtight?)space is allocated for the spare one....
one poster on Swift talk has made an underslung cage (under the van) for his spare cassette...his work was featured in an MMM article.
while fresh and waste tanks have been getting larger, to facilitate autonomy, the good old toilet cassette is now the limiting factor...
...unless, that is, the van has a full 'black tank' system.
Edit: WTG no problem
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the CC has gone all political and suggests having a shower at one of their sites means you must be wild camping
Seems a reasonable assumption to me. As for politics .... in areas such as many UK sea sides were wild camping is often seen as a problem why should the CC assist wild campers? Not exactly the way to endear local communities is it?
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Some store them in the motorhome garage; others fit brackets under the m/h designed to hold the spare cassette. I am sure there are other solutions.
I saw this in France and at the time couldn't quite work it out! I hope it's more secure than it looks you wouldn't want to see a full one of these heading towards you on the autoroute
David
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I think the answer you would get is 'location, location, location.'
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why assume those who wild camp are bad people and that what they do is bad....
it's no different to the actions of some dog owners on site, a few will spoil it for the many.....shall we stop all dogs coming onto site just in case...?
no, we try and sort out those who mess it up for everyone else, don't we?
anything else would be a narrow minded, prejudiced view, wouldn't it?
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why would you understand? you're a caravanner....
...but why not just ask all the wild campers that you know?
youre trying to understand the reason why folk have motorhomes over caravans, and the answer is freedom.....to go where they like, park where they like (all within the law/regs) and not to be beholden to a regimented system of sites that doesn't give the freedom they seek...
money is not the motivator....many spend two/three/four times the figure you mention on their MH, they just enjoy their freedom a little more plushly than someone who's spent £50k...it's nothing to do with anything on the cheap, certainly not in our Morelo or Concorde..
the M.O. is the same....they use their van as they want to, not how other people say they should.
as long as their overnight stay (wherever it is) leaves no trace and breaks no laws, why do some get so uptight...? probably because they don't 'get' it.....
I don't wild camp as such, but I do use supermarkets sometimes in France.....but I buy my fuel, bread and groceries there....am i endearing myself to the local community by not staying at the local Municipal site?
i also stay at free Aires.....again have I endeared myself to the council (who built the aire), I think I have as I have used their product but have I upset the local campsite owner, no idea, but I doubt it...
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...but why not just ask all the wild campers that you know?
In my opinion we need some different terminology. How about Free Campers. Calling folk who park up in some remote location in their luxury MH, with shower, toilet, comfy beds, heating, good cooking facilities, replenish-able electric power etc. wild campers, is just so wrong.
I wild camped in my youth, however it was somewhat more basic. Even the primitive motor caravans of the time would have been a luxury by comparison.😂
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'free' as in free spirit....a term of endearment?
or 'free' as in it costs nothing and another 'on the cheap' jibe?
its always been known as wild camping, it just means away from the constraints of campsites, doesn't it?
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I am happy with the free spirit. I certainly, in the majority of cases, don't think the motivation is cost.
We'll just have to have different definitions BB. As to me it has always meant a basic form of camping. Not taking your own 4 / 5 star hotel along.
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Whats the matter with you people. Some insist on CC sites and nothing else. Others use various sorts. Some of us " wild camp"- term generic for not a recognised site. We are all different. Its nothing to do with cost, going on the cheap etc- just a different way. Perhaps its just jealousy that we dont conform. No we don't pollute, leave litter, empty tanks. When we need facilities etc we pay for it just like everyone else.
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As a youth when we went “wild camping” (with a tent, in a field) the toilet was the great outdoors and we took a trowel. I guess that’s not quite what is meant by wild camping on this thread?
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I think Fish sums it up nicely.....free from sites, leave no trace....
im sure there's a hint of 'disapproval' that some go their own way, but as long as they talke all traces on with them, what's the issue...?
some of our recent Aires have been little more than 'open areas' of countryside just off the highway....without the formal sineage, it could easily be taken as wild camping.....
the thing is, in the sun, away from the hoardes (even only a couple of hundred metres away from the road, it feels like a different world...
more akin to a countryside CL, but no booking, no paying and come and go as you like.....
Steve, perhaps when you make the change to a MH and you lose the constraints of towing a caravan, you might start to look at different ways to use the van rather than just pitching up at a CC site.....
there's a whole world of wonderful places out there which will never be seen by those who aren't interested....
thats fine, we all have different likes, but for those who do venture a little further or do it 'differently' I don't see a problem as long as everything is left as it should be and no regs are contravened.
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thats fine, we all have different likes, but for those who do venture a little further or do it 'differently' I don't see a problem as long as everything is left as it should be and no regs are contravened.
Rather difficult in England and Wales BB as there is generally no right to camp anywhere, without the owners permission. All land is owned by someone.
The one exception I know of is the Dartmoor National Park, where "wild camping" is permitted in quite a few areas. I feel safe using the term "wild", as it specifically excludeds MH's and caravans.
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We do have a pair of motorhoming friends who spend a major part of the year finding free Aires etc in France or in places where they don't have to pay. They let out their home as a holiday house, on the coast and that's how they live their lives. We did spot them overnighting in a uk car park once. Not our cup of tea but each to his own. I suspect that the search for free places must be quite time consuming and possibly not quite as safe or even peaceful but some want to do it.
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then let's just say.....and everything left as it should be....
in the uk we use CL/THS for our non site camping, not usually 'wilding' other than the odd pub stop, lol....
OTOH, France, Spain offer much more opportunity to 'just pull in' where you feel like it, which is why so many do it, I guess....
back to the OP, I really don't think that offering a 'shower/dumping' facility encourages any sort of camping....
those that partake of non-site camping will carry on and will use their current methods for replenishing services.
in France/spain/Germany etc there are many service points (publicly funded) which assist in campers managing waste....these are not overnighting places....just another type of aire in the portfolio....
if folk are going to camp away from sites, why not provide facilities where waste can be dumped correctly and responsibly?
many campsites there have service point where campers passing through can replenish for (say) €2 or 3....
it seems to work, but there is a huge difference in attitude to campers (MHers) where there is no stigma attached to someone going to a campsite, paying to dump waste and then moving on...
no one is judged for not paying £30 to stay on a site
CCC have at least understood the issue and how it can partake (it has an appropriate infrastructure) but their prices are way too high, IMHO.
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You've made a couple of good posts on this subject on this thread BB and I agree with you.
Although we rarely "wild camp" we have done occasionally in Scotland, for the location, and act as you suggest, leaving no trace etc. And we've seen vanners tucked away in superb little spots....
The problem comes with the "FLT's"
I've seen (and reported them) climbing over the fence of CC sites to get in the shower block. You see what appear to be long termers in residential streets in some towns, to the fairly obvious annoyance of local residents. And then there are the one(s) who dump their waste on the beach (I'm sure you've seen the thread on MHF).
Like any activity there are the good and the bad. I was recently accused by an old lady of being a "hooligan" after I stopped to speak to a car driver who nearly killed me on my motorbike. She hadn't even seen the incident (it was half a mile down the road), but just assumed cos I was on a bike I must be an idiot....
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I believe that the club is right not to allow their facilities to be used as a dumping/drop in centre, can you imagine the response by full price guests who have to queue for the showers etc.in already overstretched facilities in peak season. M/Homers leaving site and waiting for the queue for dumping waste to diminish. Just imagine the posts from angry from some club members
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OP, it's the club's regimented timings/processes and site layouts that are responsible for queues to get in, queues to get out, queues for the showers, queues for the MHSP....
folk coming on to most French campsites to dump waste wouldn't impact a jot on the goings on of the site....in fact, they'd hardly be noticed....
....as there's no queue to get in, out, for showers or MHSP.....because folk can all do these things when they please, not when they are told to...
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CCC have at least understood the issue and how it can partake (it has an appropriate infrastructure) but their prices are way too high, IMHO.
Really! showers for two, possibly four. Use of the laundry. You only pay further if you use the machines, dump and water facilities.
£7 seems quite reasonable IMHO. The couple of aires I have noticed on our travels charged 3€ for 100 litres of water, dumping free. Certainly no showers, or laundry.
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I tend to agree with Oneputt's post above. I've no issue with responsible off site campers but expecting wholesale changes to facilitate their choice to do so seems unreasonable to me. From my experience, many C&CC sites have facilities at or near the entrance which would make it relatively easy for off site campers (note, avoiding the words "wild" or "free" which seem to upset some) to use them without impinging on site users over much. But C&MC sites simply don't have that arrangement. Is anybody seriously expecting the club to spend huge amounts of money redesigning sites for the benefit of a relatively small number of folk who ....er....don't want to stay on site? I don't think that's realistic is it?
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back to the OP, I really don't think that offering a 'shower/dumping' facility encourages any sort of camping....
Why are they calling in to dump / shower then?
I suppose you might get a few from non facility CL's that want to do their washing, or find it easier to dump in site facilities. However, the vast majority would have camped (illegally in England and Wales) elsewhere.
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As a recent switcher from caravan to MH, I have just completed a three week tour of Normandy & Brittany. Three stops were "proper" sites. One night ( just of a late ferry) was tucked down a quiet lane and eight others were MH aires of varying levels of sophistication. The itinerary, if done with a caravan would have involved a far greater mileage, going back and forth to various locations. It could therefore be argued that it reduces the environmental impact.
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“because folk can all do these things when they please, not when they are told to...”
Told to? What an exaggeration!
Is it not true that most people prefer to shower early morning with late afternoon or evening being the next favourite? That’s what causes the queues - nothing to do with the facilities being closed for an hour late morning.
Likewise queues at the MHSP at 10.30 have nothing to do with an out by 12 rule. It’s simply that people want to do things at the same time but if you want to use people’s behaviour as another CAMC bashing tool, be my guest.
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