Coed-Y-Llwyn Caravan Club Site - Electricity
Comments
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Not much fun for the wardens when some keep tripping the EHUs, having to go out with a torch on a wet and windy night trying to sort things, knocking on van doors to explain etc. We've experienced that on a club site on the Cornish Coast, we were fairly new to vanning then and it was a quick lesson in how to keep the battery going thanks to others not bothering about excessive EHU usage. I expect lots of us have similar "adventurous" tales to tell, nothing like a coastal storm to hone the reactions....
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The problem of the total demand of all units on a site overloading or unbalancing the supply capacity to a site is going to become more prevalent in future. Especially with the new breed of adventurer explorers that is being promoted as "the future". They will not be coming from a tent camping background and will expect full facilities that are on all the time - just like at their permanent residences.
Reducing the maximum power available to each pitch is cheap to do. It merely requires the replacement of a simple plug-in limiting device (the reset switch end of which many on here will know well). It is very old mechanical-electrical technology and I think modern electronics can provide a far more elegant solution.
This is an electronic limiter device that communicates through the site wiring with a master computer control unit. This would be able to remotely switch off individual pitches, and restore the power as well once it was available. The pitch unit would also be able to report to the control unit the amount of power consumed. This system already is in widespread use and heavily promoted by the supply companies. Did you know that getting a "Smart Meter" at home allows the supply company to switch you off individually remotely?
At times when the total pitch demand approaches the available supply capacity the control unit would reduce the "trip level" on the remote pitch units to match the load to the supply. Not necessarily in big steps, but consider how it would work changing to, say, 10 amperes instead of 16. Those individual pitches drawing over 10 amperes would switch off, while those drawing less would not be affected.
The software would be continually monitoring the situation, so it would be able to switch back on these 16 ampere users briefly to check if they had reduced their demand below 10, and if not, switch them back off again until they did, or the total site demand dropped.
The software to do this has probably already been written and tested as this is how power companies will be "rationing" mains electricity in the future as demand increases and generating capacity shrinks. This system would also allow the charging for electricity by pitch that some members advocate.
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Individuals are already "turning off" the supply by excessive use. Individual smart meters would be useful but they won't stop excessive use even if they get excessive bills for their pitch. The capacity of the sites always has a limit which is being reached in due to over use by some members.
Could it be that some sites have too many pitches for the EHU capacity?
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think we are all going soft, if it is dark/cold/wet put on your bedsocks climb into your sleeping bag with a good book, switch on 12v lights. that is what caravanning used to be like. Have a 2008 coachman, basic heating e,g, electric/gas fire, sometimes use the gas fire to get up a head of steam but hardly ever use the electric fire unless very very cold/damp and then only on the lowest setting maybe overnight. Too dangerous in my book to keep gas fire on whilst sleeping even though I have fitted all the necessary detectors.
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morning DD, you're right of course in the kettle boiling stakes, my crude figures are purely from the commercial going rate differential where not taking EHU is an option...
in fact, one site in the new forest charges £7 (last time I looked) for 'hook up'.....no shortage of tea and coffee, there
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....but for you (and I) the 'efficiency' figure we're interested in is whether it's more efficient with our money.
as I demonstrated upthread, for me it is.....by a huge margin...
i (you) could easily do the same calculation knowing the cost of your own sized refills....
however, I agree we all want the 'convenience' of an ehu, and for someone with a mains telly and small, expensive gas supply, having the site trip is 'inconvenient'...but not as inconvenient for me...or many others.
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Could it be that some sites have too many pitches for the EHU capacity?
Probably, but not deliberately. Site design was done during an era when van consumption per pitch was much less. Its today's power hungry outfits and inclusive electricity price that has tipped many sites over the edge.
peedee
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Steve, despite me producing some figures to support a cost saving case, my van isn't rigged up as it is to save money on CC sites, it isn't likely to happen....
its as Peedee says, choice....I can use any type of site I want from the 'Merve' type low cost non EHU CL (his reason being he hated rip off club prices) to THS sites, to other commercials (with the option to EHU or not), to Aires.....to wherever.
to allow us to be where we want and to have a van that gives us everything we need isn't expensive, although some of that cost can be recouped if that was deemed to be part of the evaluation....
as I said earlier, our inverter from Maplins, about £40, all the rest of the kit (solar, 2nd battery, Gaslow, the sat system) negotiated as part of the purchase of our previous van and transferred over to this one....
i don't want to be tied to one vanning 'format'
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well please go on, I'm comparing heat with heat, but please tell me how I'm misleading?
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+1
It is about personal choice but I'm happy for people to make up their own mind rather than be told it's a better way?
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I would have thought changes in load balance over time would not be that difficult or expensive to correct. The Club has made a rod for its own back in making electricity inclusive in the pitch fee particularly now we are seeing more owners prepared to venture out in cold weather, with I add, with the Club's encouragement.
peedee
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OK
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I suppose there is another alternative if a site's available power source is inadequate which has not been suggested so far and that is to limit the number of pitches available, and hence the site loading to what can definitely be provided without interruption.
peedee
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Well, the supply companies are giving smart meters for free . . . . .
Real cost would depend on the number being manufactured, but if they were to be fitted to most sites, static as well as touring, and if more than one manufacturer/distributer was involved the price would become reasonable - probably about £20 per unit. Still a considerable investment per site, and for a whole network of sites. Labour costs in installing and testing would probably treble that as well!
Massivly cheaper though than rewiring sites to give continuous 16 ampere to every pitch, and paying the supply companies to increase the capacity of their supply network to sites.
Something that the "Club" should be looking at though - and investing a little bit of the decamillions of reserves into.
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Yes, I have never had a power outage on any club site.
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Lucky you ET, although it will depend if you're the type of tourer who isn't phased by bad weather, and goes out in all conditions. Fitting out individual units to become less reliant on ehu is fine for those who want to invest, who will get the usage, and understand how it works. It isn't however going to be of any use to the the vast swathe of folks who are merely 4-5 week a year tourers and who don't even understand the bare minimum science behind boiling a kettle and heating their toes at the same time!
The science is no doubt hidden somewhere in the handbook, along with a lot of other useful tips, but perhaps something well highlighted on booking page of website, and maybe an article in Magazine might just catch a few more?
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I don't think excessive use is the correct term brue. As I mentioned earlier, in cold weather with the heating on 2kw, putting on a low wattage 1kw kettle brings one close to the bollard limit, when fridge, battery charger and TV are added in. None of these things can really be considered as excessive, and on a site with no distribution problems are not really anyone's concern. The items mentioned above would not trip the bollard, but in the event someone did, it is only theirs affected and as they are accessible on CAMC sites, can be reset without bothering the warden.
More correctly, once it has been established that demand is oversubscribed, they are an unwise usage. Perhaps even a selfish usage. As I also mentioned 1kw on the Alde is better than none and the kettle could be gas until the situation improves. This will normally be the case once the weather warms up a bit, or the numbers on site decrease.
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Lucky you ET, although it will depend if you're the type of tourer who isn't phased by bad weather, and goes out in all conditions.
Not generally phased by bad weather as such. However most of my tours are between start of April and Start of October with 2 weeks over Christmas.
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I agree AD. We tend to use sites with less than 16 amps. But then you, like us have a great deal of experience. It's the use of heaters possibly the main cause of overload. Takes a bit of getting used to, but remembering to put heater lower or off in time it takes to boil a kettle doesn't come natural to most folks. A lot of people possibly only encounter low temps once in a blue moon, and the automatic reaction is to just turn up the heating and carry on regardless.
We carry gas all the time. Don't always use it, don't always need it other than for hob.
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6 amps gives 1380 watts, more than enough to run (say) a Truma Combi on 'mixed I' which mixes gas and the 900 watt electric setting and will gradually reduce the gas input as the van heats up... this should be fine for winter heating...
it should leave plenty for fridge, leisure battery charging and (mains) tv etc....
its really the 'desire' to run heavy electric heating in conjunction with other heating devices (kettles etc) at the same time that causes issues..
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