Coed-Y-Llwyn Caravan Club Site - Electricity
Comments
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We will trip our supply maybe twice a year and guess who is always to blame
I did trip ours once last year on a '16' amp Harrogate site. Doing breakfast I had heating on 2kw, toaster on, hot plate on hob top boiling eggs, obviously fride and charger and then plugged kettle in ......... turned out that electrician doing maintenance work was short of 16 amp trips and fitted a 10 amp breaker on the side of EHU that I had plugged into.
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I regularly stay on a site supplying only 6 amps at the bollard even in the depths of winter and I do as AD suggests. On each bollard there is a notice saying supply for Fridge and TV only but I do agree it is not really a practical offering in this country.
Posts keep quoting 16 amps at a Club bollard. In practice on a cold day that will certainly not be available with everyone running 2Kw heating, fridge, TV and other ancillaries. The availability of power will be very much less which is why the bollard does not trip but the site supplies do.
peedee
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This idea of people paying for other's electricity is completely nonsensical to me as indeed is the idea of it being unfair? The club sets out its price for inclusive electricity. Of course you don't have to come to a club site but if you do then you accept this price and the way it is charged, who is that being unfair to? Why does everyone assume they use less than anyone else? I mean they must do to that they are subsidising others?
The club, not you or me, the club pays for the electricity used on a site. The 'contract' for the price of the electricity is with the club and you. I expect the club has done it's homework and worked out a price that covers costs such as electricity and water. As club sites make money I suspect they have got this correct.
Then there is the idea that people use this electricity excessively? Now I will agree on all you can eat restaurants, or on all inclusive holidays I will have that extra pudding, or indeed make full use on (literally) on tap drinks and that is part of the attraction. While I do that I certainly don't look round to other guests and think to myself wow, he's having more drinks than me I'm paying for that, how unfair! does anyone?
But in a caravan with all that all inclusive electricity on tap, do I have the same mindset as drinking? Do I try and use extra or all of that 16A. Do I turn on all the lights? have the heating on 2 Kw and the thermostat on the highest setting? Oh wait I must charge up all my phones/laptops/torches from the car? Oh I forgot to bring my battery power tools from the shed to get them charged here.
No I don't and I suspect others don't either, like me they simply use what they need to enjoy their outfit within the 16A. What excessive use?
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but I don't want to use gas, BB, why are you trying to force that on people? If you want to then go to sites with 6A then do so but I and all those other thousands that use club sites don't want to rough it.
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+1 for the gas as well
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which one?
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Typical values are:
Fridge 2 amps when cooling
TV 2 amps continuous
battery charging is likely to be under an amp trickle charging.
With the heating running flat out on 2Kw to keep you warm, put the 1 Kw kettle on and you are close to tripping the 16 amp bollard
peedee
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Posts keep quoting 16 amps at a Club bollard. In practice on a cold day that will certainly not be available with everyone running 2Kw heating, fridge, TV and other ancillaries. The availability of power will be very much less which is why the bollard does not trip but the site supplies do.
peedee
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Fridge 2 amps when cooling
TV 2 amps continuous
battery charging is likely to be under an amp trickle charging.
With the heating running flat out on 2Kw to keep you warm, put the 1 Kw kettle on and you are close to tripping the 16 amp bollard
peedee
When I have 2kw of heating, toaster, electric on hob, kettle, fridge etc I have never tripped a 16 amp supply.
Same on 10 amp with heating at 1kw
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I think the number of people who deliberate cause the trip to function will be very few - and hopefully they are already recieving suitable psychiatric help.
What will catch people out when using electricity is not the boiling of water, but the "background" consumption that goes unnoticed. Charger, fridge, electronics for the heating, etc systems, radio, TV, phone and laptop, clock, towel rail, lights and such are usually forgotten. And the biggey - the water heater! It switches on when it thinks the stored water is too cool - which can be any time at all really. This can easily push the frugal users into overload unless they limit their deliberate actions considerably.
And don't forget the huge inductive load when a microwave switches on, around four times its rated power. And microwaves do not run on lower power despite what the marking on the knob might make you think. Lower heating is achieved by the microwave switching itself off and on again. Each switch-on is the big load - so it usually uses less electricity on full power than on a low setting.
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I have a load limiter in my van (alde heating ) and this switches the heating to a lower consumption or off when additional load is drawn within the caravan.
As the caravan warms up, the heating is regulated by the thermostat, so apart from the initial start up, I very much doubt, it runs at more than 1KW when heat is called for.
I doubt that I use £5 worth of electric a day, more likely the “£5” quoted is not solely for electricity, it also for the maintenance and upkeep of the infrastructure to supply it.
Likewise, the £4 additional cost for a service pitch, isn’t just for the water that may be used on one.
The money for these installations has to be recovered somehow, likewise for the upkeep.
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you seemed (yet again) to have missed the point of this thread, and that is that sites (three specifically mentioned in two threads) are having difficulty in supplying a full service of electricity to all pitches at all times in all conditions and this has caused angst amongst customers...
thats the middle and both ends of it, supply outstrips demand...with no reserve should a part of the service fail...
wardens have contributed to suggest a little more thought might help the situation (again not going to quote but it's on page 8...)
now, there's two ways folk can look at this, one way (and I won't quote you, but you know how it goes) is to carry on regardless and if bollards or pitches bomb out, so be it....after all you've paid for it.....IE, no change
the other way is to look at changing either the supply or demand side of this equation...
so, ways of dealing with the issue include
* being more 'considerate' (to others and to the finite site supply) in usage as in JK's comment
* the site infrastructure doing something physical/logical to 'intelligently' manage the supply to avoid drop outs as suggested by Nav
* for individuals to (perhaps) look at making more use of other fuels in some circumstances as suggested several others, including myself
please don't mistake my responses on gas usage for 'telling' you what to do, perish the thought....merely supplying information into the mix to help everyone make informed choices....
though it's pretty obvious what yours is....
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As the caravan warms up, the heating is regulated by the thermostat, so apart from the initial start up, I very much doubt, it runs at more than 1KW when heat is called for.
As far as I am aware all the thermostat does on an Alde system and for that matter on any other systems is it switches the heating on or off. It does not change the heating setting. I can assure you on a very cold day my heating, on 2kw electric only, can be flat out struggling to maintain an even temperature and I have a well insulated van. A couple of weeks ago I resorted to using gas and electric together on my Alde system to maintain a day time temperature of 22C.
peedee
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I doubt that I have been that lucky for over 1,000 occasions PD. Never seem to win the lottery!
Toaster maybe 1kw (?)
Kettle 0.8kw
Heating 2kw
hot plate 0.8w
Indeed that ought to trip! And certainly in colder weather the heating will only just have been turned up from bedtime temp and fridge recently opened also caravan door to get eggs. Probably only 200 occasions when we have boiled eggs. I suspect that I might turn heating onto 1kw automatically but even that does not explain it as still using 3.8kw plus fridge etc. Maybe I should get lottery tickets instead of OH.
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well as I've already said, and backed up by other posters, once warmed up 1 kw on thermostat (so not running all the time) is more than adequate for heating a caravan.
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well it's y definition there AD , on the occasions we use gas for cooking I will turn the gas on at the cylinder and off later. So to me getting out of a nice warm electricity heated caravan into the cold is roughing it.
I just distrust gas ever since during a service the 'engineers' did a pressure test and did not reconnect the pipe to the cylinder. Did not as it was left completely unattached. Luckily I could smell and hear the gas coming out of the pipe and stopped it. Now I did get all my money back but that would have been small compensation if I hadn't noticed and the gas had ignited sometime later? Yes I know that gas would have fallen to the ground but who knows what could have happen?
Ever since I don't use gas unless I have to. Leaking electricity is stopped before it can do much damage, leaking gas in the van might do more?
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well you have a badly designed van for heating, maybe your front window is to blame? As already said by a few of us the 1 kw setting will keep a caravan more than warm, and I've been there when it's been below 0C.
And while you are correct that it does switch the heater on and off, it will only have to heat the air temperature by a few (one perhaps two) degrees when it falls below your set temperature. Then it switches off again. How often it has to do this depends on your insulation (very poor in your case). Google some basic physics and find out the specific heat capacity of air - that is what energy is needed to to raise 1 kg of air by one degree, if your van only needs a raise of 1 degree every now and again it will use less energy and will be able to cope on 1 kw easily.
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Unfortunately, the heating system is not just heating air.
The air in turn has to heat cupboards, contents, soft furnishings, clothes and people before the 'van will be "comfortable" Air is not a particularly good method of conveying heat so it can take ages, with the heat source switching on and off at the levels set by the thermostat. The difference between the "on" temperature and the "off" temperature is important, but not usually adjustable by the user.
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sorry there AD
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Getting back to the original subject of the mains tripping on some sites.
With certain people claiming that they only use 1 KW of electricity on their heating and the site supply starts tripping. The question has to be asked -- Who is the person overloading the demand from.the site supply and why ?.
Some are shocked that when the power on site is tripped, they have ( horrors of horrors ) to use the Caravan's gas supply. --- Surprisingly the caravan manufacturers fit dual fuel fridges, heaters both room and water heaters, so why be reticent in using the van's potential.
In fact when touring in France for all those years, I regularly didn't bother to connect the orange umbilical cable, or on any occasion when I did, it was to a 6 AMP max supply. Never ever had a problem.
K
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