Time to roll back to previous forum?
it looks like CC is performing its 'user acceptance' testing of the new forum in the live environment, ie we are testing it (and pointing out the myriad faults) in full public gaze...
this is (or should be) very embarrassing for those concerned, as all this 'testing' (and that is whats being done) should have been completed in a parallel testing environment, and have had a group of 'real' users giving it a damn good stress test for a good while....
im afraid what we have in full view is not fit for purpose and i suggest the CC eats Humble Pie and reverts to the previous forum so that all this work on the new forum can be completed where it should always have been....in private....
attempting to fire fight is always difficult, especially where so many users are bombarding the IT team with so many faults.....repairing these in real time will be difficult and will put the team under more time pressure, time that can be measured by everyone on the forum.
do this in the test environment and roll it out again when its functionality is properly understood and there is a decent team of experienced users helping to test it and sign it off properly....
whichever decision the club makes, i wish them luck, but they have put themselves between a rock and a hard place.....
however, sometimes, we have to admit we got it wrong, big up and get it sorted.....in private.
Comments
-
Totally agree with you BB. Under the pic in my avatar it shows where you are from I have tried to remove it in my profile and keeps coming back. Iv'e emailed the club and the same answers come back. I did a taster Web design course a few years back and was told simple is best. Which this is not. Still awaiting my latest reply to my email.
Brian
3 -
perhaps, if there could be a fairly quick 'bug fix' release that cured the main issues, they might get away with it, but where is the list...who signs it off, who helps woth the testing and signs that off, who agrees the timescale (and the budget).....
yes, we could live with this....but why should we...?
my main bugbear (away from the actual problems with the site) is the seemingly inability for the 'IT team' to be using accepted processes and methdologies for taking a project from conception to implementation...
even if the whole thing had been a huge disappointment regarding functionality, it should have at least delivered that functionality in a working mode....
it really looks like there was no user involvement in the design phase and CC just built (threw together) what it thought we all wanted.
that in itself is 'a bit arrogant' but to actually deliver what we dont want AND not working is pretty poor....
this is not a good bit of PR for the club, and following on from the 'caravanner of the year' this is looking like their 'annus horribilis'.
5 -
I know I jokingly posted prior to the changeover this would be a typical IT project, late, over budget and won't work. But this has exceeded my low expectations of IT per ce.
An online 'shop window' is paramount in todays world. This one is like those vinyl overlays on high streets and shopping centres across the country that say 'closed down, no new business, no investment, no hope, no interest'. An opportunity missed by the CC.
Logging in is a pain, the first screen its too fast in loading banners that are of no use.
'Jump to last reply' would be better as 'jump to last unread post' as every other forum on the internet does. To go back pages of 6 posts per page is like stepping back into the dark ages.
CT should be a mine of information freely given by knowledgeable and experienced caravanners and motorhomers to help others and welcome newcomers to this wonderful hobby of getting out and about. Big K (Kellingley) was closed last year, the last deep coal mine in the UK, CC has closed the last deep mine of caravan / MH info in this shambolic upgrade. Typical IT world, lets upgrade and go backwards. Upgrade non required things and delete valuable tools.
Have CC taken the lead from caravan manufacturers and focussed on style and gizmos over substance? Don't fix won't ain't broken is a well known watchword.
After the debacle of the chairman ripping the back off his caravan attempting a slope that was too steep, has the CC blindly followed that lead and gone down a hill.
Must do better.
PS got logged out whilst trying to post this thread.
PPS had to delete the repeated text from the pre log out reply.
2 -
I'm not really a regular on the forum any more and I can live without it but the problems I have with site and CL searches (not the map search) will probably drive me away from the CC website and over to the app permanently
I'd add a smilie but I can't on my phone
1 -
Agree for the whole site not just the forum. Does not work on Samsung Tab in portrait mode, too slow (all site), bookings are really hard to make now and finding information is a nightmare. You now have 2 "My Profile" areas, one with your normal site bookings, personal profile etc. and another for the forum WHY?
The old site needed a refresh and in general the new scheme is good but its just not thought out.
0 -
I have to agree with the OP. The CC have just made a huge mistake. The blame should not rest on the CC IT department's shoulders though. The decisions taken to implement a new IT system, what it does and what it should look like, will have been taken at the top level of the management structure. Those would have been the constraints that the poor IT dept would have to apply.
So if anybody's to take the blame it's the Chiefs and not the Indians. Senior management of companies do make mistakes and have questionable judgement. I remember one of them stupidly ripping the back off a caravan, but we won't dwell on that.
So -- the new system obviously has not been properly tested and evaluated before implementation. --- Whose decision would that have been ??, I would hazard a guess that it was not a decision that any IT dept would take unilaterally. --They would have to do exactly what they were told by those above them in the company.
Cheers.........................K
4 -
K, agree. this would normally be taken by the IT Steering Group (or some similar body) that prioritises the projects being tacked by the IT dept.
however, someone (project leader) will have to report into this body that the requirements have been met, the system tested and when they can deliver.
this will then be eased into the overall IT 'diary' for implenentation.
so, a chain of 'yesses' that eventually reach board level, where final sanction is given.
but, as we all know, even the best laid plans etc.....
what we need is some serious sould searching thought which can decide if its better to move forward, fixing small parts in regular releases OR to revert to the old system and to understand whats required and implement again all in one go...
bearing in mind that there is still a serious amount of missing data to retrieve from the old system (reviews, stories etc) so there will be another trance of data migration into the new system, this will result in more downtime, as will the various releases of bug fixes.
it takes balls/guts to admit you got something wrong but, if the old system is still effectively in place (and it blooming well should be) then reverting back shouldnt be too big a job......
the new system can then be properly sorted, tested and rolled out again.
as i said earlier....rock and a hard place for CC, damned if you do....etc.
however, if there are also issues with the other parts of the system (search and book) this is a far more serious situation than a few posters moaning about a forum.....
some pretty tough talks going on in the CC corridors (or there should be...)
1 -
Well, this is a depressing thread, all gloom and doom.
If you really all hate it so much (and are throwing blame everywhere) why not be constructive? It is all 'You should have tested this...etc' ...do you really know that they haven't ?
What is your own assessment based on please? Do you all have IT expertise or just experience of browsing other websites/forums ?
I suggest that this website is far more complicated than just a Forum site, there are also millions of members to consider not just the few that use the forum, a very complicated Booking system to put out there too, not just for Sites either.
I'm not entirely happy with some of this new format, but I am only commenting on the forum aspect here as that is my experience area, but I hope that in each of my comments I have at least stated my problem and asked if anything can be done about these specific aspects.
Just general moaning and blaming really does not achieve anything other than giving newcomers to this site (who won't know any different anyway) the opinion that it is a forum full of moaners and to be avoided at all costs.
Please gents, if you have something specific to say with questions about whether or not something can be done about it, fair enough, but this constant moaning is very depressing.
Merry Christmas everyone
Alison
5 -
It's a complete mess in my view and I feel that reverting to the original forum is the best thing to do.
1 -
alison, we are all entitled to our opinions and mine (after a lifetime of designing, constructing, implementing and supporting large IT projects) is that some of the basic principals of project methodology have not been followed....to be testing the system in the full glare of the public do ain is just plain wrong.
yes, its ten years since i finished working and the systems i was responsible for were, in the main, mainframe based...
however, the company i worked for had more than a billion pound turnover and to have released something like this into the real world would have been very costly....in real business terms.
ok, its a forum.....but if this is truly how the CC manages its customer interfaces then it begs the question as to how the other parts of the system have been 'improved'....i havent looked there yet, i darent.
4 -
I am not really concerned about the forum aspect of the new website, but the fact that key aspects such as bookings, CL section, etc... do not appear to function smoothly is and should be a major concern for the Club.
As a shop window for tempting in new members, delivering on the promises to existing members, then all I can say is that the lights have dimmed considerably on the display, and the website seems unable to cope with either the up to date devices used by most website visitors, and the speed, clarity and ease expected by people who regularly prefer to do business via the Internet.
After the not inconsiderable waiting and promises around the new website, it is an underwhelming, frustrating let down. And sounds like it is going to take months to iron out many of the glitches.👎
0 -
"We’ve had a few teething problems at the start, but overall in terms of functionality I think we’ve got a much more stable forum than we have had previously."
Sadly the staff have to tow the party line so the above comment indicates that this is it.....get used to it or go elsewhere seems to be the message!
0 -
This forum is a very poor effort indeed. Any one who uses other forums will have noticed that there are at least a couple of formats that are used by different organisations, but are clearly derived from the same forum design. They cater for multiple sections as this tries to. Don't think I have seen a forum where posts only occupy about half the screen...
Why on earth did the CC attempt this task in house when a fully working and tested solution is already available ?
I work with guys who do this type of work, who are certainly talented, if geeky, as it is very complicated indeed, and very time consuming to get things working and displaying properly on all the different platforms. But, proper testing is paramount, and this clearly has not been rigorous enough, which brings the competence of the designers into question
0 -
My answer to the question posed in the OP would be "definitley not!"
This discussion and the arguments put forward in support of "going back" are based on assumptions.
Assumptions about what project management methodologies were employed in developing the new website.
Assumptions about who was responsible for what.
Assumptions about who was involved in development & testing.
Assumptions about who made the key decisions.
The truth is that members making these assumptions and then building arguments on them are not in possession of any actual facts!
So all we end up with is a set of posts from members which are basically saying - "look everybody, I used to do this sort of stuff"
Well so did I - but I would never start to make the sort of criticisms I'm reading here just on the basis of the pure assumptions above.
The best people to make decisions about moving forward and further developing the website are the CC staff and contractors (if any) who know what has gone on and what now needs to be done.
We also need to acknowledge that there is a big difference between users saying "don't like it because its different/new" and "it doesn't work because"
We also need to acknowledge that the CC, with approx 1M members, should not be expected to put too much weight on the grumbles of a relatively miniscule number of members here. Having said that, they are doing the right thing by listening to comments made on CT and making decisions based upon their wider experience of the system and deciding the way forward.
Personally, I trust them to get on with that.
Bugs
9 -
personally I don't have a lot of issues with the new forum, most of the problems are with myself not being fully conversant with resizing photos etc , but that's is not the fault of the forum ,but me ,the user
some of the other forums that I use have annoying little faults , but that's life
1 -
+1 with HD. I read all the negativity for the old Forum, now I'm reading the same negativity about this Forum, geez it's even being suggested going back to the old Forum folk moaned so much about. I don't know a thing about 'methodologies/functionality' et al I just use it, if it bothers me I stop. Crazy I know but it works.
2 -
The new forum has been up and mainly running for just 3 days. I think it would be helpful if all those people who are just complaining without offering any positive contributions or suggestions take a rest from commenting for a week to give admin the opportunity to fine tune things which I am sure will happen given a bit of time. Might I also suggest that people be a bit more thoughtful in their comments towards people working in the IT department as none of us know what conditions/parameters they are working under and what other people may or may not have done in a previous life is neither here nor there.
David
9 -
Well said David.
There are 3 things in project management, Time, Quality & Cost and you can only ever have 2 of them i.e. if you want it quickly its going to cost more and you may not get quality, want quality then its going to cost more and take longer etc.
I don't think the CC have rushed into this so it looks like they have either skimped on cost or quality, answers on a post card to Sir Humphrey Bumphrey C/O Grimstead Towers...
1 -
I take your point about the forum David, but my gripe is with the site and CL search. This is CC core business. Using my iPad the search via towns and different requirements such as hard standings, ehu, etc.... Isn't working. So I am left with two options. I either trawl through hundreds of CLs reading them individually to see if they have what I need, or I resort to a two year old dog eared handbook, that is well out of date and do it the old fashioned way. I am fine with CLs I know the name of, I just type that in, but we tour all year, using different CLs, hoping to try some of the new ones!
1 -
At the end of the day, It matters nought to the CC if members find the new software better or worse that the old stuff. The CC management have designed and implemented the system they feel is most beneficial to the CC Leisure business.
It is a management decision. CC customers pay the management to run the company via their annual subscriptions. Either accept what the CC management decide to do or vote with your wallet when the annual subscription becomes due. Getting hot and bothered about something which you have no influence is just a waste of time.
---- However----
This has been a good, polite and well mannered thread and from what I see, (apart from those who are obliged to toe the company line), members have been disappointed in the new software. --- I see no reason why those people should not be allowed to express their disappointment. -- It won't change anything, but is a good discussion point.
Cheers..................K
2 -
Just as an interesting aside ( apologies BB for digressing) how many folks have realised that it is possible to "like" your own post? There is also the option to "unlike" posts you previously "liked" so for those indecisive members whose mood swings kick in.......you can have a field day vacillating over "like or unlike" as much as you like! Or unlike!
0 -
Bugs, my criticism was solely of the 'finished product' that has been delivered to us, the customers. i think the 'Bugs' we are finding now should have been ironed out a long way back...
my point was that this should not have been delivered like this in the first place, and if citing the processes and practices that were used 10 years ago which prevented this sort of thing is somehow wrong, then i apologise.
i certainly know what its like to be on the wrong end of a badly perceived implementation, and this becomes a hard learning curve.
it certainly tightens up the checks and balances....
i wish the club the best with understanding the outstanding issues, planning their correction, constructing the build, testing it fully and rolling it out (again).
im sure they 'did all these things' as part of this implementation but, to my eyes, this is nowhere near the finished article.....
ill hazard a guess that the first time an actual 'customer' saw this system was on the day it got rolled out....
0
