Prices too high or falling interest in camping
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As far as I could interpret there was no joking by the poster, just a bland statement. However, read it has you like, as I will.
The price that I will be paying, with my free night, will only be matched by a few CLs in the area, and as we have never visited the site before we thought of going to see what it was like. I am never one to look a gift horse in the mouth.😁
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....on the subject of 'falling interest', I guess the interest in any 'hobby' will have its troughs and peaks.... it will be ever changing between one and the other.
I notice there have recently been several dealers who have shut up shop, including Broad Lane Leisure, who had several branches. This could very well be partly due to the 'COVID effect'..... some folk bought vans when they couldn't travel abroad. Now that such travel is a bit easier some are selling vans, which means a bigger second hand market.... I wonder if folk are purchasing these vans rather than buying new....
Couple this with increases in pricing (partly because of increased electic costs), changes in 'towing vehicles'... (electric vehicles), price of fuel, etc These are all goingcto have an effect, I guess.
Out daughter is 'moving house' and we thought we would go down to help, but because of commitments we could only stay in the area for one night. If we took the caravan, we would have to set up/ pack up; extra fuel cost for towing and a CAMC site fee of £35.40 (or £40.30 for a serviced pitch). The local Travel Lodge was quoting us £35 for one night.... but we'd pay an extra £20 for the dog. For anyone without a dog the Travel Lodge would be cheaper and 'less bother' for one night. Even with the dog, it is a 'close call'....
David
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You all seem keen on carrying cassettes across the site. That never entered itself to me
Moderator comment: edited
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No need to carry these days, it just trundles behind you.
In addition, why would I want to go through the rigmarole of dressing/undressing numerous times to use a 'dubious' site shower when I can stroll naked to a guaranteed immaculate shower in our own van,
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I think of it as “The Great Divide”. Those who want a loo block, and those who don’t. (Not talking about anyone with special needs here, providing accessible facilities is good and enabling. Something the Club is good at, and continuing to improve what it does provide).
We have always been perfectly happy using onboard facilities, but will use facilities blocks in the daytime if they are there. Making use of our onboard facilities provided greatly extends the range of places we can use.
Our initial reason for joining the Club back in the mid 1980’s was because we toured around in a tiny campervan with no onboard loo or shower. It was one up from a tent, and a lot of sites only had perhaps a couple of loos and a shower you had to queue for, so Club Sites were better. Once we got a caravan with a loo, we used less Club Sites and more CLs.
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I rather like Trebor Extra Strong Mints. Usually buy a four pack of mints with our weekly shop in Waitrose. The problem is that the pack of four mints is now the same price of the seven pack was only three years ago. So in reality they have almost doubled in price. So you ask what on earth have Trebor Mints got to do with camping? If something as simple as a pack of mints can nearly double in price is there a logical reason why campsite fees might also not substantially increase in price over a similar period? Not suggesting that Club site fees have doubled since Covid but they have increased. I just wonder if people just can't get used to the new pricing levels. I know that Ted from Cholsey Grange would argue that we shouldn't expect CL's to be cheaper than full sites if the facilities are the same, however I suspect that has not quite been accepted by the membership generally? A few years ago it would be unusual to find a CL costing more that £20 a night but now quite a few are nudging £30. Seacroft Club site in Norfolk between 2019 and 2023 went from about £26 a night to £38 a night in October. So it seems campsite prices across the piste are increasing. If people are finding prices generally now too high they probably haven't appreciated that everything has gone up in the last five years. It could be a reason for people giving up but I expect there are other issues as well.
David
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Yep, I’ve been saying or ages that everything has increased in price and site fees are no different. I keep quoting the price of a supermarket weekly shop as an example but folk only seem to notice site fee increases🤷🏻♂️
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Price increases post COVID were always going to seem quite high, two factors certainly didn’t help… there was a lower VAT rate that the Club passed on, and then it reverted back to 20%. The huge increase in energy prices had the Club increase prices twice in the same year. At least the Club provided a totally free night, with only a start and end date T&C once energy prices had fallen back. But the pitch prices didn’t fall, I guess because energy contracts were still running.
The single pricing factor that annoys us is dynamic pricing of pitches. It is not a policy that I would expect to be operated by “a fee pay to join Club” and removes any of the spontaneity of just taking a last minute break at a good price. It might have been beneficial during the post COVID period, when pitches were highly desirable, but this last year, all the Club Sites we visited had lots of empty pitches. Dynamic pricing isn’t about covering the provision costs of a pitch, it is about getting as much possible income in regardless of how much a pitch costs to provide.
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With the growth of campervans the way people wish to camp is changing. Club sites were very difficult to use for a weekend and for travelling. When I was working, it was impossible for a weekend getaway or for travelling. I have recently retired. Arriving by 8pm was difficult and if you arrive on a Saturday you lose the day if you have to wait until 1pm to book in. When I explained the process to youngsters who tend to be campervanners they raise their eyebrows. They are not going to put up with it!
Yes they are too expensive and I actually refused to book some that are charging more than a travelodge/premier inn. Do remember we have already paid a high membership fee. With admittedly judicious planning the MAXIMUM cost of I have paid this year for a premier inn was £56 this year... the minimum was £34..... These were at Heathrow!!
Could we not change the way campsites are run? This would lower costs possibly? Automate the process. Could booking be done solely on line or by phone? Wardens concentrate on maintenance just checking on everybody twice daily to check everybody is okay? They could be on call for an emergency.
1. On arrival just leave instructions and allocate a pitch number. (Particular requests could be put with booking understanding that they cannot always be met). Freeing up warden time. Cards could be billed automatically.
This would stop the process of the safety hazard of caravans/ motorhomes touring the site picking pitches and cut down on pollution of exhaust fumes.
2. Quick stop areas so that you could just stop overnight up to 10pm and could be gone first thing for people en route or just touring.
3The size of the pitches at times for my small camper van is enormous I could fit two campers on a pitch often and still keep the 6 metre rule. If booking ahead and dimensions were supplied perhaps a bit of imaginative practice could be employed to fit more units in without risking an inferno on the campsite!
4. Stop the silly deals and just lower the price/ it is confusing and puts me off even bothering. It does not feel like a club, and the dynamic pricing makes it feel like a business not a club. (Is it really non profit making I am not totally convinced)
When travelling distances now I tend to use pubs for overnighting in their car parks or Just Park has some good sites. The bother of staying at a campsite when I am on the move is a pain...... If they were simpler just to park up I would deffo be more likely to use them.
After travelling for the first time to France where life seemed to be so much easier camping, with Aires and CHEAPER campsites I am not sure what is going on.
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Your examples of chain hotel prices are, by your own admission, due to judicious planning. It is a very different scenario if you book when you feel like it and cancellation is an expensive issue as well most times. Therefore, to compare Premier Inn prices with CAMC (or any other) sites is not in any way comparing like with like.
The other points you make have been discussed here many times but have you put your ideas directly to CAMC for an official reaction?
I think it boils down to the fact that your requirements and CAMC ways are not compatible. Have you tried CLs who often have different ways of operating?
As for profit, there are no shareholders to take a rake off so any surplus is ploughed back in to the operating budget to help with site acquisitions and refurbishments. Perhaps you aren’t familiar with the business model of CAMC.
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Thanks for your reply campervanner from Cornwall. I agree that my needs are incompatible with the club. That is the point and the club has found a drop in membership and usage! I note the average age of users on sites are going up as well. I have found I only started using CMC main sites more now I have retired. If you can afford them and want to stay in an area for a week (with judicious planning again to avoid the price hikes) they can be useful.
?? Time for some change. Yes I have spoken to and perhaps more important listened to representatives of the CAMC and they feel very set in their ways. But have been speaking to younger campervanners recently and honestly they just voting with their feet. There is a market for AIRE provision as in France- perhaps the club could explore this option? Maybe they are missing a trick?. As I say 'empty campsites'.
I am aware of the fact that it is a 'non profit' organisation BUT it does not feel that way. It feels like it is very set in its ways who are not moving with the times. I agree I am not your typical member having not owned a caravan and primarily camped and back packed.... But the point is to attract as wide a demographic as possible.
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Indeed the whole point is that your needs are incompatible with the provisions of camc. I’m astounded really as I’d not join a golf club if my interest was in tennis.
What evidence do you have of your claim of a drop in membership and “empty campsites”?
I see you’ve been using this forum long enough to know the points you make have been well debated, you’ve used CAMC sites and C&CC sites but, suddenly, CAMC no longer fits the bill and you want to change the way it operates🤷🏻♂️
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There is a market for AIRE provision as in France- perhaps the club could explore this option? Maybe they are missing a trick?. As I say 'empty campsites'.
We have stopped on a lot of camping carpark Aires in the last 5 weeks at 14 / 15€ a night, some were fairly full, others almost empty. Rather like sites here at this time of year. Baltic Wharf, basically a city centre Aire with services, largely full at £43 a night. But as in France some sites will be less well occupied. At this time of year, until many of the sites close, there is an over provision during the midweek, although weekends are often full.
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That is the point and the club has found a drop in membership and usage!
Can I ask where you got this from? At the last AGM it was stated that the membership is at all time high and there was a record rate of members re-joining. The next AGM is this month.
And it was stated that now MH and campervans owners members numbers now make up more than caravans so those two together indicates they are attracting MH type outfits.
Empty campsites? Not my experience this year, as in mainly full ones.
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Tentpegs
Some good idea's there, have you sent any of these to the club for them too consider. I also think that the club needs to go more digital but that move also needs to take into consideration those members are not 'digitally aware' and not introduce processes that will exclude them.
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When on two sites in September I did try to check the numbers out of curiosity and found in both cases caravans outnumbered motorhomes about 60/40.
We store the caravan on a club site and certainly the units in store and on the site seem to favour caravans. I suspect a higher proportion of motorhome owners store them at home so the storage bit might not be a true reflection.
It would need a lot more site visits to see if these were typical but that is what I saw.
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I’m positive the storage situation bears no resemblance at all to the caravan/MH ownership balance! Most MH owners keep their vans in use so don't park them in storage.
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I've noticed that on service pitches MH often, in fact always this year, outnumber caravans.
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Cornersteady I do apologise if I have got my facts wrong regarding the membership numbers it was my impression. However there was a boom in motor homing over the pandemic but now people are selling up and trading in their vans. Could this be something that is about to reverse?? My impression is worth the club does not seem to be doing that well.
However the younger demographic; the campers of the future... I think are wanting different things. I am not suggesting that you forget your 'older' part of the market as they are likely to use sites more as they have more time in retirement.. (daft to throw the baby out so to speak with the bathwater) but you need to attract people earlier to feed through for the future?
As an aside i might have been a member for a while but I have not visited this site for years. But as a member wanted to raise questions. Some interesting replies. Must go folks.
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"…..but I have not visited this site for years."
Hmm, that’s not quite so. Perhaps you’ve forgotten your earlier activity of this year and last when you seemed to be relatively happy with CAMC's MO, apart from prices 🤷🏻♂️
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But the AGM is the most recent statement we have (and nothing since?) in which it clearly states the highest ever membership and record rejoicing rates, so I assume there was an increase since that report you mention.
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BP here is a few quotes from the AGM minutes:
This was the Club’s second best year ever and a level that was aspired to be sustained into the future. A record 321,000 existing members renewed and as a result, the highest number of member families ever in membership was achieved at over 380,000 households. On sites, a more sustainable level of occupancy was reached with 2.4 million nights, ahead of the pre-pandemic year of 2019.
What makes you think the club isn't attracting younger members and especially families TB? Do you have any statistics to back this up or just your impression?
In my experience (and reinforced again this year) is that during school holidays the character of club sites alters significantly with many (happy - I hope) families staying on club sites. This is how we started. I also see many younger couples but usually with MH (I include all other non caravans in this). Have you visited many club sites throughout the year TP? As I said the club I've visited this year have been doing very well.
Also you were posting more than a year ago?
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I think you might be quoting some older AGM information Corners. The new 2023 AGM report is now online, and does indicate some concerns around falling pitch occupation, despite special offers etc…. Rising costs in some areas, as well as a fall off in Membership, but other areas doing ok. Lots of information of course. I will post a link….
https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/globalassets/pdfs/agm/agenda-agm-2024.
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No TDA it's the minutes from the 2023 AGM, I don't make mistakes like that and the 2023 report has been online for a long time, I think from just after the meeting, and I've been quoting from it for a long time so I'm not sure what the online new report you're referring to?
While it did talk of falling occupancy and rising costs due to financial crisis and cost of living crisis I can't find a reference to falling membership as you've mentioned?
The outlook in 2023 remained strong for Membership, Insurance and Financial Services and Overseas Travel and the Club was doing well at managing costs down. But UK site occupancy had been impacted significantly by the cost of living crisis in 2023. Despite the continued best efforts of the Club to mitigate price increases in 2023 by not passing through c£5m of cost inflation in 2023, everyone had been impacted by steep increases in the cost of living in the UK and across the world. Understandably, some members, in the face of tighter budgets, had chosen to reduce their stays on the main UK Club sites. This had happened at the same time as more members had chosen to venture abroad and take advantage of the fact that it was now possible to travel freely after several years of restrictions and this had created a compound impact for UK sites when soaring cost inflation was considered. Other more general 8headwinds persisted including the continued impact of high inflation on wages, utilities and virtually all costs involved in providing members with the quality of service they expected. 2.8 The net effect was, that despite strong financial results outside of UK sites, the Club did not expect to quite achieve its 2023 budget surplus. As ever, looking forward to 2024 and beyond, the Club would continue to take a balanced view to navigate a path that would take account of pressures on the cost of living and inflation for members and staff alike, while ensuring sufficient financial resources were retained to push on with necessary capital investment, improving member service levels and a modest growth agenda, given the outlook for the pastime remains positive for the foreseeable
You can find both quotes here under AGM then 2023
https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/about-us/agm/
MINUTES OF THEANNUAL GENERAL MEETING OF THECARAVANCLUBLIMITED HELD AT THE QUEENELIZABETH CONFERENCE CENTRE, LONDON ANDONLINE ON28OCTOBER 2023 AT2.00 PM PRESENT...
Grenville Chamberlain (Chairman)...
ITEM 1: CHAIRMAN’S ANNUAL REPORT
1.1 1.2 The Chairman gave his Annual Report, reporting that 2022 had turned out to be a year of strong performance for the Club. For the first time since the pandemic, members and the Club were able to enjoy an uninterrupted year of operation. Although the unprecedented bounce back in UK holidays seen in 2021 inevitably waned a little, membership continued to be buoyant with the year ending at a record high. Membership recruitment was strong in 2022 with almost 65,000 new families welcomed into the Club. This was the Club’s second best year ever and a level that was aspired to be sustained into the future. A record 321,000 existing members renewed and as a result, the highest number of member families ever in membership 1was achieved at over 380,000 households. On sites, a more sustainable level of occupancy was reached with 2.4 million nights.
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