Prices too high or falling interest in camping
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That is the previous one Corners. Click on my link, and it comes up with the Agenda for 2024. It’s from October Club Magazine. 👍
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This is a screenshot of where report mentions about pitch take up and Membership. It’s what will be presented at this years AGM👍
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No I quoted from the minutes from the 2023 AGM. As there is yet to be an AGM for this year there is no new AGM report, there cannot be.
What you're quoting from is the Club performance review. Weather this becomes the new report for 2024 I don't know?
Also the report isn't as bad as you posted in my view:
We are pleased to report that the Club had a relatively successful year...
Membership fell slightly in 2023, ending at 376k (still high in my view and a fall in 4000 households or 2000 lead members)
Statutory revenue was up 5.4% year-on-year at £141.8m, producing a statutory surplus of £4.5m which was an acceptable return by pre-pandemic standards.
Closing cash of £53.8m was up 12% compared to the previous year, due in large part to local authority planning delays that hampered the pace of the Club’s capital expenditure programme. The Club’s EBITDA (Earnings Before Interest, Tax, Depreciation and Amortisation), a measure of the cash generative power of the Club, continued to remain strong at £18.9m compared to that achieved in 2022 of £19.7m.
The overall surplus of £4.5m represents a 3.2% return on revenue that was ultimately in line with budget at Club level, aided by one-off benefits of capital receipts and also tight management of costs.
Revenue was up year-on-year by £7.3m at £141.8m. Sites revenue remained level at £72.1m (this one is interesting as site occupancy is down, so the club is doing something right at managing this?)
Travel revenue of £21.2m, up £5.7m...
Insurance and Financial Services had a very strong year again...
And there are areas that are down but not enough to cause concern, again in my view.
I would think that the overall money aspect line is very good indeed and I again would think that many other business would love to be in such a position. So the club is doing very well and a tribute to the management of it, in my view.
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Pitch occupancy on Club sites was reported in 2023 as down by 15%
The 2024 AGM might reveal whether there has been a further fall in pitch occupancy so far this year.
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Possibly part of the answer is in the foreign travel income increase. A one third rise means a lot more people going abroad again and therefore less use of UK sites. Not the whole answer as I think the weather did not help but it does indicate a change in habit back to the pre covid days.
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This is Sites, Overseas, Financial Services section of the 2023 income v expenditure. It looks as though it is the Financial Services performing well. Looks like the Site operating costs, (electricity usage, rise in Minimum wage, 15% decrease in usage) have impacted, but you start to see why prices have gone up, and why the Club are closing sites either earlier or completely for good. Only one part of the overall Financial Management of course, which is complex and extensive.
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It may be unpopular to say so but I am sure that the Club now insisting on deposits is having a dramatic impact. OK, there were some selfish people who booked endless weekends and then cancelled but for us it meant we could plan our trips and book them well ahead (not weekends by the way) and if necessary cancel or amend without too much hassle. With the changes now in place we simply do not bother to book Club sites anymore. We look to CLs or private sites so we can be more spontaneous.
The Club is meant to be a touring Club (its origins at least) but it is now impossible to tour spontaneously. Sites are fully booked so if you book a site and then want to change to another as your touring takes a slightly different direction it is impossible to do so and consequently you lose your deposit.Perhaps the Club ought to think about reverting in general to the previous system but just charging deposits where weekends are booked alone. That way those of us who like to tour spontaneously would come back to Club sites.
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Staffy, if you want to tour Club sites spontaneously it seems so easy to me to do it. One can see availability immediately on line and go to most Club sites without any booking or any deposits at all. Then pay on arrival for a few days, extend if you wish or repeat and move on.
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That’s how we have been using Club Sites for years. It’s very rare, beyond maybe YRP and the odd weekend elsewhere that sites get full. Unless you want a specific pitch type, on a specific date or perhaps on a BH, there hasn’t been any requirement to use the deposit, book in front system. Other than you might have to pay a bit more, because of the DP. But then you can choose an alternative if the price doesn't suit, with no deposit lost.
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Having put the deposits down to £5 I doubt these put people off given how low this was. The C&CC take far higher ones with a longer period where you lose it if cancelled, many private sites want the whole lot paid in advance and the loss of the lot if you cancel and still survive. In todays climate £5 is very low and I doubt bothers anyone as in general the others are worse.
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It does make me wonder sometimes if the Club now feel that reintroducing deposits was the wrong move? OK the Club couldn't have predicted the major upheavals we have experienced in recent years. Perhaps the new booking system can't operate without a deposit? I agree that £5 would not deter anyone from booking and cancelling late on. Unless of course having paid a deposit, however small, people actually feel more obliged to honour, come what may, and even a tiny deposit is putting people off. Can't see the logic myself-but!
David
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We have lost deposits 3 times in the past year through a need to amend our bookings at the last minute and no availability on sites in the area we were going.
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Sorry to hear you have lost three deposits but if it happened to me I would stop booking. There are only 5 Club sites full for tomorrow and 126 with availability.
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To paraphrase Lady Bracknell, to lose one booking, may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose three looks like carelessness.
If you canceled at the last minute then the bookings on the other sites were almost certainly, well, certain. Having a deposit or not wouldn't have changed that?
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The current pricing makes caravanning increasingly unattractive, especially when you factor in the total annual costs—including site fees, fuel, insurance, and maintenance. Many campsites offer little in return for the money—often just a pitch in a field with limited or obstructed views. If prices were more reasonable, usage would undoubtedly increase. After all, the aim of the club should be to support its members and promote the enjoyment of caravanning, not to maximise profits at their expense.
It would be really useful if the Caravan and Motorhome Club published a breakdown for each site showing occupancy rates, income, running costs, vacancies, and profit — and also a combined overview for the whole network. Transparency like this would help members understand where their money is going and whether the current pricing is truly justified, which I doubt.1 -
@Hello the funny thing is though that the cheaper sites in the club's network, the ones that were basic and indeed were just a pitch in a field on grass had to closed due to low occupancy as they were not economically viable, while sites with things like EHU, hardstanding, service pitches, new improved toilets blocks, and even swimming pools get used more.
Is the club maximising profits? If it is making a profit, which goes back into club funds, then it's because people are using the sites?
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Producing the info you require would bear a cost. How do you suggest it’s funded? Oh yes, of course, put site fees up to cover it. I fail to see how such info by site would be useful. What would you use it for?
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I find it hard to believe this kind of data isn’t already being gathered. Any professional organisation would be tracking site occupancy, income, running costs, vacancies, and overall profitability. If it’s not being done, how are pricing decisions being made? Without this insight, there’s no way to link pricing to actual demand — and if prices are being set without it, it’s shockingly unprofessional and feels like guesswork.Let’s take a more focused approach. Each site should have a 10-year plan in place, identifying development and replacement needs — from new toilet blocks and resurfacing hardstanding, to the introduction of fully serviced pitches and added amenities, like allowing external food vendors onsite.
These improvements come at a cost, but with clear planning, costing, and a realistic income strategy, they can be achieved in a way that benefits everyone. Pricing must be fair and mindful of members. The aim should be to maintain accessible, well-kept facilities — not create a network that eventually only wealthier members can afford to use.
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If we accept it is being done, it’s surely commercially sensitive information not for general publication.
You still haven’t said what use the info would be to you as a club member and site user. I really can’t see any point in knowing. Would you sit on site analysing profit and loss or would you rather get on with enjoying your holiday?
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Let’s take a more focused approach. Each site should have a 10-year plan in place, identifying development and replacement needs — from new toilet blocks and resurfacing hardstanding, to the introduction of fully serviced pitches and added amenities, like allowing external food vendors onsite.
These improvements come at a cost, but with clear planning, costing, and a realistic income strategy, they can be achieved in a way that benefits everyone. Pricing must be fair and mindful of members. The aim should be to maintain accessible, well-kept facilities — not create a network that eventually only wealthier members can afford to use.
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We have no need to know the info you want and you still haven’t said why you want it. So, come on, do tell us.
You seem to be telling CAMC how to run their business without the knowledge of their existing processes.PS. Are you sure you’re new to this forum?🤔
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@Hello how do you know that the club does not have such a scheme in place? It is not the sort of thing they will advertise on here, although perhaps it would be idea to publish some basic details in the news section of the web site if it was in place.
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Isn’t the Caravan and Motorhome Club meant to operate for the benefit of its members? That principle alone explains why the kind of information I mentioned is important. With significant cost increases, the Club has a responsibility to justify those to its members transparently.
In response to the comment that I’m “telling CAMC how to run their business without knowing their existing processes” — if this information isn’t already being produced and reviewed, then frankly, yes — I am questioning the approach, because any well-run organisation should already be doing this.
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OK, I get it, you don’t want to answer my question concerning what use a breakdown of data by site would be of interest to you. I think that’s called evasion and there is no point at all in debating what CAMC might or might not already do as neither of us know. You need to put your points at the next AGM.
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@Hello wealthier members - that sounds familiar 🙂
Are you suggesting 'poorer' campers join a club and indeed pay to join, and then finding sites are too expensive then rejoin? Rejoining rates have been excellent for some time now. Sounds a little odd to me if people do that, and while I know some join and re-join for other reasons other than staying on club sites but in which case they won't have an issue with club site prices as they don't mainly use them?
Well to start with that, any evidence for that? As I posted cheap low cost basic sites had to close while other site thrive?
It would be really useful if the Caravan and Motorhome Club published a breakdown for each site showing occupancy rates, income, running costs, vacancies, and profit — and also a combined overview for the whole network. Transparency like this would help members understand where their money is going and whether the current pricing is truly justified, which I doubt.
Again some familiar phrases there but not heard them for a while. Firstly I think that any such information would be useful to the club's competitors (which appear to charge the same prices) and the club is unlikely to publish that.
As I perhaps replied to you before on this when I was younger I would think that many members using club sites really aren't interested in where their money is going or indeed need a breakdown of such details as you suggested?
I don't, but I know exactly where my money is going, to provide me with excellent sites at a cost that gives me value for money.
Pricing must be fair and mindful of members
It is very fair, you pay the prices or go elsewhere? Greatest fairness there is. You make it sound as if people are forces to join? Or are club sites only full as members don't know there's better out there as someone once posted?
I have to ask if you doubt that the current pricing is truly justified why are you a member? There are plenty of better sites out there we have often been told and you are not forced to use and pay for unjustified pricing are you?
If you don't use club sites, why are you interested - leave it to those that do?
Btw you do know eternal food vendors are already on many sites?
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@Hello I think without doubt the CAMC has long term plans, and a Dept that oversees all the number crunching, statistics, planning, justification, etc….. hence why they have a well paid Director of Marketing, and it’s the employment section of the Club that has grown more than any other in the past few years. Transparency comes via its regional meetings, the AGM and other outlets, although, it is a business in the true sense of the word nowadays, so is fighting for its share of the Market as hard as any other holiday providers, so some strategies might just be market sensitive. As such, I think that the Club is changing and evolving away from what it was say 10 years ago, and is now embracing a new generation that wants different things, has the income to take up touring, and no longer views “camping” as a basic type of holiday. The Club’s research, and feedback is telling it the majority of Members want more on Sites, and that comes at a higher price. So long as the pitch take up covers these costs, and those using them are willing to pay higher prices, then market forces are working. Whether or not those like for example me are happy with the prices charged is something different, and will be a decision for the individual. In my case, I know I can get cheaper stays elsewhere, but don’t need or want as many of the “extras” now on offer. I liken it to supermarket shopping……….Aldi gives me all my basic needs at a good price, but every now and then I do a top up with things Aldi don’t provide, and happily pay more for them.😁
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Cann't say I like the direction the Club appears to be travelling, My membership renewal is due shortly and currently I am wrestling with what to do, renew or not. I have only spent 4 nights on a C&mC sites (only 8 percent of nights away so far) and one of those was a freebee. I can only see that percentage droppping for the rest of the year. If I do renew, it won't be to use Club sites because like @Takethedogalong I also do not need or want all the extras and I am happier paying for just the basics or the smaller less expensive sites if I can find them in the right place.
peedee
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Best friends with campervan are just back from Truck Festival in Oxfordshire - 20,000 of all ages there and high price didn’t deter them - five music stages, food stalls, and a full on range of activities. Traditional campsites have vacancies, but that’s the sort of event which is pulling in the crowds. Boardmasters in Newquay is aiming for attendance of 60,000 this year. And Fairford Air Tattoo pulled in 175,000 this year with lots of them on pop up campsites in the area. There’s not a falling interest in camping - just a falling interest in what folk find to be dull and boring. And they will pay prices which will horrify members on here
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Chalk and cheese, Euro. The two types don't compare in the slightest.
You couldn’t pay me enough to get me to Boardmasters or similar.
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All those vast numbers were in MHs then @eurortraveller?
Totally different, apples with oranges as someone might say. The main draw is the music, trucks or airplanes and people are just using their outfits to attend their interests not just to use their outfits to stay somewhere as you appear to be saying. It's a win win, use one's outfit for holidays and then use it like this.
But if that is the case all campsites have to do is get some music stages in? Club over to you?
The local hotels and (A)B&Bs will be pulling them in as well. It's just the lucky ones with outfits who can stay far cheaper. Also have you considered that some will have attended using club(s) and non club(s) sites? I did when attending some events of my own interests.
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