Prices too high or falling interest in camping
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Venture capitalists aren’t usually interested in small private limited companies. They tend to favour PLCs which are quoted on the Stock Exchange. Why sell to a venture capitalist when CAMC itself could sell its assets in the way you describe?
However, I can’t see the connection between your musings and the topic raised in the OP.
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Tinners, I don't post very much anymore and have indeed stopped caravanning in UK. My last trip to Cornwall convinced me not to bother returning to your beautiful county.
As you stated, Cornwall relies on tourism and yet when the tourist takes the trouble to visit, are met with extortionate parking charges, inflated fuel prices, increased pitch costs and restaurants who, unless you speak in the local dialect, tell you their establishments are full - even when they're empty! On numerous occasions we were turned away from such establishments and on checking later the same evening, found that many still had empty tables! Furthermore, an arduous journey home also had to be factored into the equation.
I appreciate that my comments could be flawed but I can only speak as I find and am sure others will have experienced the same.
The infrastructure of Cornwall is such that it is no longer fit for purpose in our over crowded Island and is the reason I would not return. Some would say it adds to it's charm and it's difficult to disagree. However, the seasonal workers employed there need some serious training in the hospitality sector.
With regard to the OP, I would suggest there are some very valid comments made as well as those made by others.
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Your comments are certainly flawed insofar as Cornwall is not exclusively dear for tourists but is an expensive place to live for all of us. We live with those parking charges and restaurant prices year round and you must have noticed that fuel prices are high in rural areas and, the further west you go, the dearer it becomes due to transport costs from the refineries. Housing is expensive where it exists and wages are low while utilities cost an arm and a leg.
I'm sorry you have such a low opinion of us and our county but, there you go, it is what it is. Of course it doesn’t help that our infrastructure and services become stretched due to the influx of visitors but it’s the price we pay for living in a glorious place that’s the envy of many.
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I too have been a member for over 40 years the club these days is unrecognisable, years back it was a members club these days its focused more on the business side. The club really should be focused on value for money for its members, sadly that's not the case, my kids are all grown up now and as such I only use a club site when it's discounted, the cls have gone up in price whilst saying that so have many of the facilities they provide. I am away in June on a reasonably priced club site and an even better price affiliated site, the club could do better that's for sure, they need to move forward and package things more attractively for families in my opinion.
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It is interesting that a few years ago the comments on CT were to the effect that the club should modernise its approach, it was stuck in the past, it be more business like, streamline itself, offer more offers, prices on pitch should mirror supply and demand (DP), and be like other commercial providers, bring in deposits.
Yet when all this was done it's please can we go back to being a club?
As posted upthread somewhere by RC, which mirrors my own experience, that price isn't an issue.
And families are certainly well cared for, always have been. For example kids are kids on CAMC sites till their 18th birthday unlike many other non club sites where it's 16 and often as low as 14.
Also the club has T&C which are really the best on offer for similar providers.
But as always as there are better and cheaper sites out there there is really no problem?
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Not altogether the same but I read a post somewhere else yesterday where a family wanted to go to Alton Towers for a couple of nights with at least one day to include tickets to the park.
The price was so high they found and booked a weekend in the south of Spain for all four of them, including accommodation / airport tax and breakfast and they still had money left over for a night out.
That pretty much sums it up, I don’t think the club have much wiggle room, it’s not them that set the rateable value for the sites, or the prices of gas/electric and I guess their overheads are not light. I do think they could be a little more competitive but thats my personal opinion.0 -
It amazes me that people are shocked at the rise in site prices while all around them costs have spiralled. Our weekly supermarket shop now costs around 50% more than pre-covid, fuel costs have escalated and, likewise, energy prices. Why then is it a surprise that the cost of a touring pitch, both club and non-club, has kept pace with the general increase in prices?
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I agree that site price increases are commensurate with much of those witnessed in other aspects of our daily lives and outgoings. However, it’s how these increases are beginning to impinge on the less affluent and lower paid caravanning and camper vanning folk, particularly the younger families. For some of us oldies, not all I admit, we can absorb some of the hikes, not so our children, we are having to find more and more ways of helping them out in order to enjoy family holidays together with the grandchildren. Some won’t be so lucky!
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I couldn’t possibly say 😁
Of course some folk are affected more than others by the increases in holiday prices, Micky. It's a shame those attempting to give their children a holiday are probably the ones least able to afford the extra costs but twas ever thus I’m afraid. That doesn’t necessarily mean that any particular site operator is milking things or taking advantage of general price rises but the businesses have to remain financially viable.
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Yes, it was sometimes difficult even when we were young but my personal experience and observations shows that it is far, far worse today for many more than it was for us then. Just look at the rise in food banks and charity efforts now needed to support those who once did not need or want to be associated with the likes. It wasn’t always thus in my experience, hard though at times it might have been we still managed quality family holiday time.
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I think it's always been the younger folk struggling to pay a mortgage and raise a family who have felt the pinch the most but, as you say, it’s probably more severe now even though we coped with rampant inflation and interest rates at 17% when we were in our 20s.
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I can not understand why the caravan and motorhome sites are so expensive either somebody is very greedy or they are trying to only appeal to the very well off, why is there not a discount for pensioners, l have spoken to quite a few lately who slagged off the C&MC claiming it is only for the very well off and that the membership is too high, so why not look after your over 65s and help them with there mental health and bank balance.
Neville Howard
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Personally, I wouldn’t want other people to subsidise my holidays and would much rather any discount was given to younger folk trying to give their children holidays while having frighteningly high mortgages or rent to pay.
Why 65 and why should older people receive help with their bank balances? Mental health has nothing to do with site fees.
I've reported your post because you have published your membership number for the world to see.
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But are they ‘so expensive’? Looking around their prices, ‘like for like’ C&MC are not that dissimilar in costs to other providers. I’d also argue that if we were to ‘help’ all of the older membership we really need to help the younger too. Why do we need to consider all 65s as special. There are many pensioners who do not need that help. Should it be means tested?
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Neville
I just wonder, like Micky, if you have compared prices with similar quality commercial campsites? There is no evidence, that I have seen, that the Club is making massive surpluses on site fees. The Club have offered a whole raft of discounts this year on site fees and have also offered two "free night" offers which could amount to anywhere between £60 and £90 saving. I suppose the club could offer additional discounts to older people but that would come at the expense of younger family members who probably in need of any discount more than pensioners?
David
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Comparing club sites with commercial ones is difficult as all sites are different. My feeling is that they ae a bit on the high side of average. There is no greed aspect as the club is not run for profit although it has to balance the books, Making excess profits benefits no one as no one gets these.
Sites tend to fall into two categories of ownership, sites run by families and small companies and those of larger organisations. The first end not to have to have the large number of people administering the sites and because they are often family they have far more flexibility on hours, needing to provide accommodation for staff, employee hours and other things.
Larger ones need a head office to control the organisations, staff to check the sites and provide facilities for staff, make sure hours regulations are followed and others. This means almost inevitably they will cost more. Even employing staff to renegotiate leases and the like is costly.
It does seem fairly clear hat the increases this year were more than the membership would accept although if they were needed to cover costs I cannot say but similar increases at commercial sites do seem to have been implemented. I get the impression that the costs of using caravans and motorhomes has got too high for many but also post covid many have taken their units abroad again and hose who bought caravans after covid may have gone back to package holidays.
The whole business of running camp sites has suddenly changed and the club and other operators have to learn quickly and react. The closure of several loss making sites looks like the first step.
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Falling interest seems pretty obvious to me.
Lunar factory closed. Elddis with a mountain of debt, Swift workforce on short time. Half a dozen dealers given up. Private caravan owners can’t sell. Weather bad. Younger generation not in the least interested in the capital outlay required to get started - so overnight caravan site prices totally irrelevant. My kids and their friends in their 50’s have zero interest in the old fashioned hobby that Dad did - they have other attractive holiday options available - take a tent to a festival, scroll through Airbnb, use Booking.com, fly to the sun - buy a package- maybe something all inclusive. But haul a caravan around? Well, no.
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If there is falling interest in Caravanning, then why is the Club continuing to buy sites?
Are a lot of caravanners moving to motor homes? We hear that there are now more MH owning members than caravan owning ones, yet it seems that the Club are reluctant to provide the type of sites that many MH owners seem to want, and some say many Club sites are in the wrong place for public transport/access to shops/attractions.
New caravans have become extremely expensive, larger vans need a heavier, more powerful tow car, so also pretty expensive, but cars are getting lighter, and, with the move to electric vehicles, also less powerful and with a shorter range.
MHs are even more expensive, and cannot always replace a car, so possibly even further out of reach of younger people with families.
I don’t know whether the 50-somethings would rather take other types of holidays, quite possibly. Our 50-something DIL tells us she would like to try a MH, but is not interested in a caravan, so thinking to hire a MH sometime to see how they like it. Their children are older….18 and 14.
However our almost 40 daughter, and her family, would love to have a caravan. They find it ideal for the children….3 and 6…..much better than a hotel, and meantime borrow ours, but have not towed it themselves as they do not have a suitable car.
We have discussed a shared MH, but she thinks that would not be as suitable at this stage as a caravan.
I think the cost of caravans, cars and MHs does put many people off, and so does the price of staying on many sites, both club and commercial. We now use mainly CLs and CCC sites plus the occasional commercial, so we can afford to spend more time away.
Then there are insurance, servicing, and upkeep costs, often storage too, so unless you can make good use of your outfit it can be difficult to justify the investment.
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Only today, when I was sorting out CLs for next year's holidays did I think to myself, would I bother to retain my membership of 36 years if it wasn't for CLs? I've only stayed at a Club site for 4 nights since 2019 and this was mainly as a means to an end. This is really because we prefer the informality and small size of a CL but cost does certainly come into it. 3 nights at York was more than 7 nights at any of the CLs this year.
We've stopped going overseas with the caravan so ferry bookings and Red Pennant insurance are of no interest now. The monthly magazine isn't worth the paper it's printed on. And 'Tow Car of the Year' is a complete waste of time. The only 'benefit' that I take advantage of is Mayday breakdown insurance.
Is the Club panicking a bit with their advert imploring us to renew our membership, (mine's not due until February 2025)? I expect I will, but only because of CLs. The very high nightly fees for Club sites does nothing to make me want to use them. Sorry CaMC, you need a drastic rethink if membership is to be retained or increased.
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….but we're told membership is increasing 🤷🏻♂️
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Over the past several or more years we have been using either commercial sites or CLs mainly due to the charges by the CAMC. The commercial sites seem to offer better value for money as we always use a fully serviced pitch.
For instance a CAMC could be £50 for a couple and the commercial site offering the similar facilities, but which costs more is at £55. However for example, the commercial site may be in a better location, have a club house or shop on site where you can have a quiet drink and you don't have to walk a long way to the recycling bins.
In addition and more importantly to us, we can book a fully serviced pitch for dates that we would prefer even in peak months.
However it is a bit unfair to criticise the CAMC sites when they may have restrictions on them i.e. no club houses etc. Either that or senior management is still in the dinosaur age. LOL!
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I think it’s the total number of members that matters as each will pay their dues, rather than how many go and how many join. It’s the overall figure and total income that concerns CAMC. Better to be told than not told!
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It could be a number of ways, more joining than leaving, or numbers leaving stable and more joining. or very few leaving...
I think it from the AGM that it was the highest ever membership number and the greatest ever rejoining rates.
But it doesn't matter as TW says, the highest ever membership means the highest ever income from membership fees.
Post edit. Just found it:
A record 321,000 existing members renewed and as a result, the highest number of member families ever in membership was achieved at over 380,000 households
The next AGM is under a month so that will be interesting.
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Since the introduction of deposits there has been no problem booking a service pitch for dates that one prefers, even in peak season.
Location depends on the individual, as does a club house and shop, which we aren’t bothered about. Bins by the entrance aren’t an issue and the T&C’s are almost always much better with the CAMC when it comes to paying the balance or cancellation.
Ultimately it’s a personal choice and value for money is subjective. For us if it’s in the right place, we would use one of the clubs sites in preference every time.
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On the point about why the CMC is buying new sites I think you have to look at that against a background of the Club losing quite a few sites, not always through their own choice. They have to try an future proof the Club.
We do seem to be going through a period of change but I think we have to be a bit careful. Covid, or at least the year after, saw a lot of new people buying caravans and motorhomes most probably because they doubted that they would be able to pursue their normal holiday choices. That soon changed and we have witnessed since an over supply. I imagine that it will settle down but it takes time.
David
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Apologies I was referring to fully serviced pitches with water connections. We have mobility issues and bins outside can be a hassle for us, but certainly not a big issue.
We did stay on a club site recently due to a last minute booking, but sadly probably will not use a club site again as in our opinion poor value for money.
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