PHEV/EV Charging

The way I read it (and its not at all clear) there are some chargers in the car park, and some on a couple of the service pitches, which can be pre-booked via the office. 

It feels like this is a trial for the club, figuring out which model works best?

Just for info, our Tesla Model 3 will add 10 miles of range per hour when charging via a 13amp domestic socket. Assuming one £9 charge lasted from 6pm until 8am then we would add 140 miles of range. The same distance in a diesel car might cost £20 - £25 so £9 seems fair. We tow an Eriba with no heavy load items on the normal electric supply but free EV charging is a very emotive subject at the moment and I wouldn't expect ICE drivers to subsidise my charging.

Totally agree. I posted similar earlier the discussion.  I've filled in the complaint form on the website. Got a fairly standard reply.  More people that do it the better though.  It's a bad policy, unfair and shows their lack of understanding of phevs and evs.

I got a reply from the club. It seems the change was mainly down to complexity of implementation for the wardens. They can’t determine what is an EV and what is a PHEV. Apparently some members were abusing the system, either declaring a PHEV over an EV or not declaring at all. 
The club admitted this is a stop gap, and are looking at longer term solutions including dedicated on site chargers and per pitch meters. 

They have not yet commented on the applicability of the MRP and what that might mean from a legal perspective. I am waiting to hear from Ofgem.

I am sorry but the answer to this is an easy one YES the wardens can tell the difference between them all ice cars including self charging hybrids known as FHEV`s have one filler cap for fuel only, all plug in hybrids known as PHEV`s have two filler caps one for fuel and one for the charging cable, and all full EV cars have one filler cap which is for the charging cable,

so someone trying to claim there EV is a PHEV would stand out a mile as it would have two filler caps and not to mention the exhaust pipe sticking out the back 

it seems to me that the club have made the decision based on what’s easier for them and rather than have two options which would mean the wardens having to check peoples honesty they have gone with one option of a single charge cost for both EV and PHEV meaning they don’t after check and most of us must be dishonest.

while we are the dishonest label a recent visit i made on one club site was shocking when i saw two separate visitors not staying on site visiting a motor home in full EV cars and charging from the unused hookup points I wonder if they paid £9

Thanks for the update.  Its helpful.

Its pretty easy to tell a PHEV from a EV or a fossil fuel car.  Just look round the car at the fuel filler points.  A PHEV will have two - a fossil filler and an electric filler.  Surely thats an easy check without staff having to know car models or ask for V5 docs etc.

Who did you write to at the Club?  

I totally agree with you and winni that the inability to determine PHEV from EV is a cop out, and further the idea that this policy will allow a simpler enforcement is pretty dumb. Indeed, the punitive costs for the PHEV user is more likely to result in abuse, rather than a willingness to pay. 

The reply came from Member & Guest Relations Coordinator, Site Operations. 

In theory yes, but it's not mandatory at all to have the green stripe, and it too is open to abuse. I have seen PHEVs with a green stripe wrongly fitted by the dealer, and other ICE only cars with a green stripe fitted as a pointless exercise. 

However - this would (in theory) be an easy tell. 

I have just had this back from Ofgem. 

"Apologies for the delay but this isn’t an easy scenario.  I’ve drafted something and it’s under review, I hope to be able to send it your way early next week."

They (at least) are obviously taking this seriously!

This is the response I got from CMAC

Hello Michael,

Thank you for your email regarding your query on charging electric vehicles on site.

As you can appreciate not every member has an electric vehicle so we make it fair for all our members.

The electricity is paid for in kilowatt-hours, which is a measure of how much energy is drawn from the network. Amps are a measure of the rate at which the electricity is flowing, not the amount itself, so the 16A limit restricts what can be drawn at any one time.

A battery charging overnight will be drawing power at that rate all through the night during hours when a caravan not charging a car is not drawing any power. Therefore it uses more units of electricity.

The pitch fees that include electricity are calculated to include what we have calculated is an average amount of usage, which is less than is used when a car is charged.

The £9 fee we charge for those members who wish to charge an EV is worked out on the assumption a car is plugged in overnight, via your outfit, drawing a maximum of 2.3kw, which is the same regardless of the car type. The energy we are charged for in kilowatt-hours is the kilowatts multiplied by the number of hours, oother commercial charging facilities typically charge (if metering charging) at a higher unit price (typically £0.40 to £0.60p per kWh. I can assure you that this was all investigated thoroughly.

We've also introduced five level 2 electric vehicle charging stations at Cayton Village Club Campsite, in North Yorkshire and also level 2 charging spaces near reception due soon at Coniston Park Coppice Club campsite in the Lake District and Black Knowl Club Campsite in the New Forest. These will be charged for at the prevailing rate at the time.

Different vehicles with different capacity batteries (and indeed states of charge) would require different amounts of power to recharge. Ideally, we would prefer to meter and charge for the exact power used, and it remains our intention to move to that principle when the on site technology to deliver a good user experience for members is available.

At present, we have not found an available solution that does exactly what we believe members would want, especially in the rural settings of many of our sites where Wi-Fi and even broadband internet connections are not always guaranteed. However, we continue to engage with the infrastructure providers as their systems evolve, and hope to test and trial a system very soon. We are continuing to future proof our Club as hybrid and electric vehicle ownership grows, and are committed to providing the simplest and fairest way to charge vehicles on-site across our Club campsite network.

Kind Regards
Sarah-Jayne Hawkins
Email Support Team
Caravan and Motorhome Club
East Grinstead House, East Grinstead, RH19 1UA
T +44 (0)1342 318813 – Enquiries/Membership
T+44 (0) 1342 316101 – Overseas Travel
W www.camc.com

Thanks for posting this. Interesting.

So my phev takes about 14kw to charge, multiplied by the avg going rate for elecy at 30p per kwh equals £4.20.  

Why would the club use commercial rates of 40p to 60p to calculate charging. They haven't provided any special equipment. I'm using my own granny charger. 

The club is overcharging phev owners and undercharging for a full charge on a full ev.

Not fair to phev owners.

I have a Hyundai Ioniq full ev with a 38kWh battery. I generally use PodPoint. Their 50kW dc chargers near me are 22p or 26p/kWh and at Tesco their 7kWh ac chargers are free. 
I only do a full charge prior to a long journey. My normal charge regime is around 50% (30% to 80%) so 19kWh. Charging like this at a Club site through my outfit would equate to 50p/kWh and take 10 hrs. To get the most out of the £9 cost (10% to 100%) thats 34kWh equating to 26p/kWh and would take 17hrs, not very practical. I would like to know what the average consumption/pitch and cost per kWh the club have used to calculate the add on to the pitch fee. 
Sounds like the cost of the dedicated chargers at Cayton, Coniston and Black Knowl could change daily. Anyone know who provides these chargers for the club. Let’s hope it’s not a disaster like the club Wi-Fi has been for years. 

Exactly this. The Club are not comparing them selves to the cost of commercial charging, just the cost of buying electricity as a commercial organisation. As a business, the club are not subject to the price cap which holds standard rate tariffs at around 28-30p / kWh. 

However - if they are paying 40p-50p per kWh and charging 90p per kwh (10kWh battery charging 0 to 100%), then they may be breaking the MRP cap imposed by ofgem for peer to peer charging in a domestic setting. 

I am still waiting for the Ofgem response.