UK sites with metered electricity
Comments
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Indeed the fairly large fridge freezer in our MH fairly gobbles it. I wouldn’t fancy running it on a Calor cylinder. It is indeed a shame they can’t vary amperage available. They could then set it at 6 amps for middle of June to middle of September and 10 amps at other times. Like you I wouldn’t want metering, an amperage reduction in my opinion would be a much better tool to cut excessive consumption.
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Looking at what EHU is actually used for on my caravan. The lights are all 12V so all the EHU is used for is the fridge, charging the battery, the power sockets of course but here all we use are chargers and power to the laptops, a tv very occasionally, kettle and toaster, hair dryer for the others and an electric hot plate/frying pan type thing. The main use for us is course heating and hot water but again apart from start up most of the time it is used at 900W setting. So personally I don't think reducing the amp would affect me at all. But again it is a cost and no one appears to know how much per bollard?
When we bought our caravan our model didn't come with a solar panel and any way to use timers but certainly our next one will and I think all LVs should be fitted with a SP as standard.
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When we bought our caravan our model didn't come with a solar panel and any way to use timers but certainly our next one will and I think all LVs should be fitted with a SP as standard.
The battery charger would of course have to be turned off for any energy saving. The big plus for us is it gives us power on non EHU Aires and stops the batteries becoming depleted from running the alarm and tracker in storage. I was very pleased to have them during the lockdowns, when the MH didn’t move for months.
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We have both a caravan and a PVC, they both have solar panels. We don't have extra batteries just the one leisure battery per van.
Our TV runs on 12v, lights, pump etc.
Mains are for the fridge, hair dryer every 3 days usually, though I could take it to the block and plug in there. We were told by our dealer that the fridge we have (same in both vans) doesn't use a vast amount of gas, its not a tall one with a bigger freezer.
The caravan we haven't used off grid as such but the MH we have. The battery will last easily 48 hours even without a charge from the sun.
We converted 2 of our spot lights in the vans to spots with 2 usb ports, from these we can charge our phones/tablets also we can run 12v small fans should we so wish. In fact when in Spain we did run them and the solar panel had no trouble keeping the battery topped up, of course in the UK that might not be the same.
If the club thinks it would cost several millions to replace the bollards with smart meters, then surely this could be done by NOT up grading some of the sites for a year.
I know this wouldn't be a popular choice with some members but it would be with others. Some of the sites that have be acquired and made over and some that were just made over, did they 'really' need to be done.
Thinking about Cop26 and our future for the environment, shouldn't we all be try to do a little towards saving energy where we can.
To be honest will we get the club to invest in smart meters, I'm not sure. If you look at what the future is going to be for us with leisure vehicles I don't think so.
Within the next 10 - 15 years most of us 'old timers' will have stopped using them. The way prices are going will our younger generation be able to afford them or even want to. Sites will change, they already are doing with more pods, glamping tents/huts and luxury mobile homes. Not something for us just yet, but who knows what we might use in the future. So would the club be just as well carrying on as they are and investing the 'several millions' into nicer, more modern sites and places that all ages want to use.
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That's is certainly true, although when run off gas for weeks in Spain it doesn't seem to be overly hungry....I haven't checked the actual usage..
however, with plenty of solar and the correct regulator, when the hab batteries are full, the regulator can send a signal (the equivalent to the D+ sent by the alternator) to switch the fridge to 12v and keep it there while solar keeps the batteries up...making use of excess solar power which would otherwise have been wasted.
as that excess power gets used and the batteries get pulled down, the controller will eventually see a requirement to top up the batteries and ceases the 'run off 12v' signal and the fridge switches back to gas...
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As Steve says, the 'trick' is to turn off the mains charger and let the solar panel charge up the batteries, reducing the 230v input to sockets (and possibly fridge, depending on set up...).
for those with solar, this is exactly what happens with savvy campers when electric is metered, often overseas where sun is plentiful...why use the bollard to charge your batteries and then leave the solar panel redundant?
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..but if your van can produce its own electricity??..certainly enough for lights, phones, water pump, and with the rate of change in battery technology, inverters for hairdryers, microwaves, etc...
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We have no written policy to reduce our energy and utility costs
(from peedee's earlier post 're the club's responses from 2017)
Surely an organisation the size of the CC should have one of these as a minimum statement within it's policy documents?
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It does seem strange that there is no plan. Also thanks to Peedee for reminding us what was said four years ago and there doesn't seem to be any change since?
I suppose the club have three possible options.
1) They can continue to just add any increased utility costs to the site fees. Depending on the volatility of the energy market this could go unseen by many members as there is no correlation between rising energy costs and rising site fees that is published.
2) They could dampen demand for electricity by limiting the number of amps that are available to either 6 or 10. I suspect that would go over the heads of many members and probably cause more work for the wardens in trying to explain why they can no longer use the electrical items they once could. Whilst some members have said they can manage of a lower number of amps, something you are often forced to do when abroad, I suspect many members would prefer the easy life of not having to think about it?
3) They could introduce electricity metering which even the Club acknowledge would be the fairest way of charging for energy. Although in the longer term this would be the best option, logistically it is not without its problems. Even if the Club decided to go ahead it would be impossible to complete the task over a relatively short time so for quite a while you would have differences across the network. So anyone of a tour could encounter both metered and non-metered sites on a regular basis. Whichever way you look at it the cost would be massive and probably drain any refurbishment of sites budget for several years! We also don't know what will happen to our hobby in ten years time, will it be as popular as we get nearer to the point where ICE vehicles start to disappear? So its going to be a brave person who makes that decision?
David
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Having just received a proposed new energy tariff that would if chosen see our tariff for electricity rise by approximately 25% I can't see the CAMC absorbing any increase approaching that when their contract expires.
I know they should be able to barter down any such percentage increase but they haven't always done so with Insurance contracts for example. Site fees will undoubtedly have to bear the brunt of the increase as the management seem to be adopting the Ostrich formula for making decisions.
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It does seem strange that there is no plan. Also thanks to Peedee for reminding us what was said four years ago and there doesn't seem to be any change since?
Thanks for the acknoweledgement DK, not every one will have seen it especially the newer members.
I don't beleive the costs of metering would be massive, large yes but in the scheme of what the Club spends on upgrades/new sites it would be nothing unusal. There are other easy options, encourage members to use there own source of energy. Even motorhomes on tour without solar panels can easily manage a couple of days off grid with good batteries.
peedee
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I'm sure many folk who've been used to a 16a supply don't have a clue that their 2kw kettle draws nearly 9a or a 3kw domestic one draws 13+amps.
even on a seemingly unlimited 16a supply, making the tea with either kettle with the heating on EL 2 (1800w 7.83 amp) will be either 17 or 20 amps...whoops.
many who have been used to a lower supply, carry either a 'gas hob' kettle or a 700w (3 amp) travel-type low wattage unit...we have both.
if folk can't understand that booking a non awning pitch pitch means they can't choose from the awning pitches too, what chance do they have of understanding why the bollard keeps tripping if the supply is reduced to, say, 10a?
i agree it will reduce overall usage but I also agree it will keep wardens (not) amused....
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Most sites now the latest EHU bollards are not locked as in the past, and give users access to the trips,
On the latest Bollards you need access to the trips to reset when plugging in, as when you withdraw your plug the hookup automatically trips
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You don’t need a long memory to recall how the Club published it’s projected price increases, then upped them again within the same year, due to unforeseen rises in electrical costs. Having booked early, we got quite a bit off our bookings at the first price rate that year.
Club is pandering to those who simply plug in and don’t care about how much power they use, with those who do having to pay the same prices or go elsewhere. It’s been the same for years, hence the rocketing Site fees. Lowering the amperage available is the least the Club ought to be doing.
Club Moderator: comment slightly amended.
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We certainly used to make use of the 16 amps with our caravan, Alde heating, fridge, TV, microwave, toaster, kettle and coffee maker. In winter with the Alde on 2kw it was necessary to be careful not to exceed the limit. In France, often on 6 amps, we had to be even more careful even with the Alde on 1Kw.
Now with a MH, which is a bit more cramped than the caravan and doesn’t have a microwave, but does have refillable gas, we decide to do away with the clutter and utilise the gas. Rather than having to pack / unpack toaster, coffee maker etc.
Now no caution required if 6 amps Truma on E1, if 10 amps or above E2. Fridge also on electric. Everything else 12 volts or gas. Battery charger can be on, or as long as sufficient light off, and solar keeps batteries topped up.
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Have never bothered to take extra electrical appliances, we use a stove top kettle, toast under gas grill, cafetiere etc etc. But this year we took a small travel kettle (we could use the electric hot plate) as gas wasn't so easy to buy and probably will start to increase in price so we'd rather use what we've already paid for in the pitch price. I presume gas prices are going to rise even more in the future.
This all sounds a bit frugal but I don't want to replicate home when away so I'm happy to leave "stuff" behind.
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If anyone can invert an equivalent to EHU heating system that can use and run on 12V I think they might be in for a few quid?
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With the right batteries at the right capacity, an inverted 12v supply could run (say) a 900w Truma (if wired to do so)...
the ratio of (say for ease of maths) the 240v output to 12v input is 20 times.
so a (say) 1 kw heating system for one our would draw 83 amps per hour from the batteries....a pair of lithiums at 100ah each could easily support this but not for long....
having said that, a few years ago we wouldn't even be contemplating a load like this on batteries, they've come a long way and may have to go much further in a world where all the 'power' eggs are in one basket.
the easy way to run a Truma without 230v is to turn it to 'gas'.
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Gas isn't that green though and as someone posted (sorry can't remember - Nav perhaps) there may be a time when LVs can't have it?
I am sure it will happen regarding batteries, never when I was for-ever loading Ever-Ready batteries in to my toys when I was 10 or so did I ever think they would be able to give such assistance on my bike and never mind power a car at over 70 mph for such distances as we have now.
Actually I thought it was brilliant when rechargeable batteries came along in AA sizes, and even better when you didn't have to discharge them fully or you'd get the dreaded memory effect.
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I have just read all the posts on this thread and only one seems to me to have put pertinent numbers to this issue. Thank you, Cornersteady.
"................. the cost of running 900W (call it 1Kw) for one hour is about 20p so six hours while we're out would cost £1.20.Really not worth worrying about, a coffee/tea... anywhere will cost more than that"
We can only use what is supplied and an extreme example where 16 amps is used constantly for 24 hours would equate to a cost of £4.80 (using the figures above which are fair) An unlikely scenario but it does perhaps show that if that is the maximum, how many years would it take to recoup the investment that some are suggesting?
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