UK sites with metered electricity
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protesting CY? I'm not sure why you use that phrase but I'm not protesting anything just stating a fact that I don't have Alde but I do have a Truma blown air unit but it does not have any timer on it nor any means of connecting the Truma app. Later models do but not mine. I assume that is OK? Like I said if I had I would use it.
plus a relevant tariff for consumption I think that is illegal?
As I said I can stay very comfortably warm with my (Truma) unit set at 900W all day long.
Btw I think it is you who is protesting about not being able to gas, actually a good idea, isn't gas bad and electricity greener? Or is your motorhoming on gas more important than the planet?
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"CAMC can't profit from leccy? Maybe not but can they not make a standing charge for the use of the bollard plus a relevant tariff for consumption. That enables recouping the cost of metering."
That's crazy, CY, and probably in breach of an SSA rules. It's charging twice and akin to your local garage charging a fee for use of the pump on top of the cost of the diesel.😂😂
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Some UK sites certainly charge 'with EHU' or 'without EHU'...I've seen as much as £7 difference in the tariff.
im guessing they are not 'reselling' electric, merely providing access to a 'service'?
if so, the club could do this without breaking rules or incurring huge cost?
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You can certainly charge different pitch rates with or without electric hookup. You can't meter and make a per unit profit unless you are an approved supplier.
I made a facetious comment that anyone can become an electricity supplier because that's what happened with all the dodgy energy companies who bought a pre-packed licence for a few thousand quid!
Given most pitches have a bollard, enabling folks to rent a pitch without allowing them to hook-up would be a challenge.
Only one site we have stayed at in Spain was un-metered. The rest charged about double the cost (more in Germany). Safefill works out about 0.15 EU per unit. We were burning through a bottle in less than 7 days in cooler weather. 10kgs is 150 units over say 5 or 6 days so we were certainly fairly high usage..
Having said that, our bungalow uses 130 to 150 kWh a day when weather is cold so by heating the van and maybe even the awning as opposed to the house we are still saving the planet!!!!!
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Exactly. Many commercial sites and the C&CC raise a charge for use of the hook up bollard. That’s quite legal and gives customers the choice of having lekky or not. However, the C&CC have specific non-EHU pitches on grass but you can’t use a with EHU pitch without paying the fee for use of the bollard.
That gets around the issue of satisfying those who don’t want EHU but doesn’t address the concerns of people who believe we should all pay for what we use via metering. 🤷🏻♂️
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this is interesting as from my own experience on metered sites (albeit abroad) and TG's earlier posting, we have no trouble at all in operating inside the usual 'free' 4 kWh per day.
This is true but it was hot so no heating on and no hot water either as we use the block. If it was in the UK and middle of winter then I think its fair to say that you could double or triple what we used. Again that doesn't worry me to much because if I was at home I'd be using it anyway.
It depends on where you live in the UK as well, here in Scotland you can require heating on for 8 or 9 months a year, so the clubs costs for electricity on sites up here will be considerably greater than the South of England.
I'm still for a restriction on usage though. I hate waste.
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The club already does this.
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That's a lot of usage, we have a 3 bed bungalow and our electric consumption is around 15kwh per day.
That's with underfloor heating in the bathroom.
We have an LPG tank for the heating, hot water and cooking on the hob, oven is electric. Heating thermostat set to 22c
We do have 10 SPs so tend to most things like washing machine, dishwasher and tumbler during daylight hours (when/if its sunny)
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Having said that, our bungalow uses 130 to 150 kWh a day when weather is cold so by heating the van and maybe even the awning as opposed to the house we are still saving the planet!!!!!
Wow, if that is the case I can easily see am LV using 40Kw per day running everything on electric. Our home heating is gas fired and really only runs in the cooler months. The equivalent average Kw useage is 58Kw per day. Everything else is electric and our average usage is 18Kw per day so total winter useage would average about 76Kw per day
peedee
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I think they have some sites which are non EHU...are there sites with some pitches EHU and some not?....like C&CC.
also, there aren't pitches where there is a bollard but this could, optionally, not be used...
in order to be flexible and to respond to different customer requirements, a pitch could be both EHU and non-EHU...not that difficult to 'turn it off' or 'remove a fuse/breaker'...
of course, this would require a person in authority (warden) to implement which, again, would push the price up....
is their no escape from any (even beneficial) change causing price rises?
perhaps the club is happy to let their costs rise and to just pass them on to customers...
In this 'green age' shouldn't we be approaching the problem from the other end and look to reducing those overheads instead?
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perhaps the club is happy to let their costs rise and to just pass them on to customers...
In this 'green age' shouldn't we be approaching the problem from the other end and look to reducing those overheads instead?
They should be looking at it from all angles, whether an overhead or not and hopefully they are not ignoring the competition. I already use a couple of commercial sites which I consider better value than the nearby Club sites and of course if there is a C&CC site nearby, I will always consider that in preference because of the age discount.
peedee
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In our early touring days, we used a lot of private Sites, and it was routine to be given a window sticker/piece of paper that displayed your arrival and departure date.
All it would need nowadays would be a different colour paper denoting “with” or “without” EHU. Perhaps to match the pitch pegs😂 Staff do a daily walk round, as part of routine Site duties, keep a note, tackle any miscreants if required with photographic evidence and then HQ boots them out with no refunds, and no rejoining within next 12 months. That should sort any thieving illegitimates out.👍5 -
Working on a pre assumption that metering can be introduced at sensible cost, and pitch prices adjusted accordingly. The retail pricing basis and payment method can be settled.
Those members not wanting to use electricity at all, those wanting to burn themselves in front of their awning heater on a winter afternoon and charging their EV overnight, and everything in between could be very satisfied. The club would be doing its bit towards reducing carbon emission. Fairness would abound.
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😂 Put it in the side window, behind the blind😁 I had forgotten about Silver Screens😉
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There has just been a huge (almost)-world-wide conference in Glasgow about reducing the rise in global warming. One of the main contributing factors is the emission of carbon dioxide, and burning gas is a great contributer to that.
So surely if The Caravan Club is being a responsible organisation it should be encouraging the use of electricity, which is increasingly sourced from renewables, and trying to reduce the use of gas on sites, if not actually banning it completely. Perhaps we will soon see a ban on gas installations in new build caravans as there is on new build homes?
By the way, my 15 year old caravan has a timer for the main electric heating. I know because I fitted it myself.
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The Club are always extolling the point that they are into biodiversity but I have never quite understood what they means. Perhaps they do try and buy energy from renewable sources but that hardly cuts the mustard really? It would be good to have a clear statement from the Club how they are going to cut the use of electricity. I don't often see solar panels on site buildings, surely that would be a small but worthwhile start?
David
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Solar is not such a good deal when considering finance alone. According to the government's own calculator if I were to install "solar" panels now I would not be in profit for the first 28 years. Accountants would be aghast at a payback period of over four years.
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...whilst I can see the issue with using gas in a van (over electric....provided it's green electric)....however, for ALL my electrical needs (all my 12v stuff plus any inverted mains devices) using my own solar system must be better than using someone else's (paid for) electric (green or other wise)...
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We have had a few threads about metering in the past. In 2017 the Club did respond to one of them and I kept this response and reproduce it here:
Thank you to everyone for contributing to this discussion. I have spoken to colleagues regarding this thread and have a comprehensive response from Estates who share your concerns regarding electricity usage on site.
As you are aware, The Club doesn’t charge for its individual electrical usage but within pitch fees supplies use the following:
* Drinking water
* Waste disposal including motor van discharge points and caravan chemical toilet disposal
* Facilities (where included on site) hot and cold running water, heated, shower and wash facilities disabled amenities etc.
Our pitch fees are set according to cost to supply pitches on that site (including rates, maintenance, wardens and security, cleaning and grounds maintenance, etc.)
We have no written policy to reduce our energy and utility costs but on redevelopment of our facilities we ensure they meet current regulations regarding energy efficiency and being well insulated as part of our building regulations approval. We are changing lamps to LEDs and water heaters to the most efficient on the market but as it stands are unable to “manage” individual member usage at their pitch.
Without individual meters on each outlet it would be very difficult to measure each individual usage and charge accordingly. Unfortunately there are some that do leave heaters on maximum all day and night including their awning which inflates the average usage which is why a SMART metering system would be the fairest and would undoubtedly reduce our site wide electrical usage and cost to members. The Club has as part of its environmental considerations considered “SMART” metering so that each individual pays for the energy used but it was considered cost prohibitive at this current time as SMART metering requires replacing every bollard on site with individual SMART meters, a method of cashless payment and investment in software and a network of IT systems to record, charge, store and manage individual usage. This has been looked into and would cost several million pounds to install nationally.
In contrast we are frequently asked to increase our electrical capacity to each pitch to prevent constant overloading, but our 16amp supply is our only method to restrict excessive freely supplied electrical usage.
As with all electrical systems they have to be maintained and tested periodically and as a Club we test our site wide systems every year to ensure site safety, we do this very efficiently and economically and considering the vast network and usage by members it remains incredibly reliable regardless of the environment and conditions our external electrical systems operate in.
As far as we know nothing has changed since in spite of the members and Club's concerns!.
peedee
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I'm really not sure what reposting a statement from four years ago actually achieves or will achieve PD? In any case your last paragraph is somewhat incorrect. The club has acted by looking into putting in meters and produced this statement which I assume supersedes the 2017 one and saying what it will do in the future:
The fairest way to charge for electricity usage would be based on consumption, and this would also likely influence usage levels from a sustainability perspective. Unfortunately, the cost of infrastructure and subsequent monitoring and payment mechanisms are significantly cost prohibitive at this time. Having said this, the Club is constantly reviewing the technology and opportunities in this space in order to identify cost effective ways of being able to deliver this type of arrangement in the future.
Estimates of the prohibitive costs have been given by posters, £5 million is the top one, which I don't see anyone, including yourself, disputing.
Also in spite of the members and Club's concerns!. All the members? Really all of them? You are claiming to speak for all the members? It appears that it is not even true on (the very small sample that is) CT so where are you getting this from?
The fact of matter is that it is not going to happen at this time, or in my view anytime soon, so either accept it or use more sites where metering happens?
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Yes and I have said that the club should offer the option of EHU and of course look into any technology it can like solar panels not just for large items but for smaller outside lighting and signs.
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There are many sides to this issue....
should the club be doing something to reduce its overall electric usage...
should vanners be doing something to reduce their overall electric usage..
should the club be giving its customers more choice as the the type of pitch (and level of service provision) its customers can purchase..
should the club be looking harder at the type of pitch it's newly acquired MH market might be interested in...
all the above leads to flexibility and choice..
we all understand that the 'best' pitch has electric, water, drainage etc but not everyone wants to trade this for the price being charged..
yes, we can all go elsewhere (as I will shortly) but a one size fits all might not be the 'best' solution for all customers.
folk kit their vans up to suit the way they tour, if that kit also enables the demand on the site to be less, then isn't that a good thing?
until electricity becomes the wonderful green, cheap fuel of the Gods then we might be doing a bit to reduce our usage of the bad stuff being sold to us at the moment.
however, it sounds like the club is quite happy to allow prices to rise to cover off their expenses, expenses that will continue to rise with the current policy.
plugging an iPhone into a USB 12v socket instead of a 13A mains one isn't hairshirt, neither is the TV being a 12v unit...they work just the same.
the thing is, a single panel on the roof of a van can provide the power needed to top up the battery to run these appliances without recourse to the hook up.
I just turn the tv on....it's always from the battery even when on mains....I can't call it hard work....it's the same single press of a button.
we use hookup in the winter but but not using it at other times, some of those reductions can be achieved without any 'sacrifice'...we just get used to plugging in the same way and this seems a difficult thing to change...
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...just to add a couple of other thoughts....
many vans (caravans and MH) come with a solar panel on the roof...in three of our seasons, so what can't we all make use of these rather than just rely on the club to 'make more use of solar'...collectively, we have more panels on our roofs than the club will ever do on one site....
just turning the mains charger off will see the battery being charged by the van's panel rather than the bollard and any power for water pump, lighting, tv, phone charging etc now comes from sunlight not the site's mains supply...how hard is that? If the EHU is still plugged in, mains only devices (microwave, cooker hot plate, hairdryer etc) can still be used...
a saving where it's easy and retained use of mains where necessary..best of both?
also, reducing the bollard breaker level, while being a simple tool to reduce usage, will need some 'getting used to'...again change, something that doesn't sit well...
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