Co 2

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  • Metheven
    Metheven Club Member Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭
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    edited September 2021 #32

    How come the majority of fertiliser producers in this country and its by product of CO2 is reliant on American companies, that can switch on or switch off its production on a whim when gas prices are hiked?

    Important products to keep this country ticking over should all be majority controlled by this country. We are now gifting these companies millions of ££s to cover the hike in gas prices so that they reopen their plants.

    Ludicrous.

  • EasyT
    EasyT Forum Participant Posts: 16,194
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    edited September 2021 #33

    That went out in Thatcher era, along with council house sales etc.

  • brue
    brue Forum Participant Posts: 21,176 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    edited September 2021 #34

    Two plants had been shut down for maintenance, if you read the details. Norway is involved over here too. It's one of those combinations of events that leads to a bad situation. It can happen in other industries too, like energy supplies. 

  • Rocky 2 buckets
    Rocky 2 buckets Forum Participant Posts: 7,101
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    edited September 2021 #35

    Your last line covers your question admirably Meth👍🏻

  • Metheven
    Metheven Club Member Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭
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    edited September 2021 #36

    Details will vary dependent upon whose article is being read for sure. But the BBC quotes the two largest plants that produce 60% of our CO2 where shut down due to wholesale gas prices, and maintenance followed as is usual on shutdowns.

  • Unknown
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    edited September 2021 #37
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  • EasyT
    EasyT Forum Participant Posts: 16,194
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    edited September 2021 #38

    We got into this situation in the mid to late 1980s with wholesale privatisations

  • Tinwheeler
    Tinwheeler Forum Participant Posts: 23,135 ✭✭✭
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    edited September 2021 #39

    I think most of us could see the folly of letting essential industries fall into foreign hands years ago. We're being found right😕

  • Whittakerr
    Whittakerr Club Member Posts: 3,472 ✭✭✭✭
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    edited September 2021 #40

    We got into this situation because British companies were not prepared to make the required investments.

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman Forum Participant Posts: 2,367
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    edited September 2021 #41

    Still does not answer the basic question. How can a large energy user not have a proper energy  contract and is the fuel price the real reason. Seems doubtful to me.

  • brue
    brue Forum Participant Posts: 21,176 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    edited September 2021 #42

    Contrary to views on here the problem is not exclusive to the UK.

  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
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    edited September 2021 #43

    Many current problems that the UK media,fail to mention it seems (not good headlines)are worldwide 

    Shortages of HGV drivers 

    Vehicle production because of computer chip shortages

    to name just two

    Ps Siemans and a subsidery of SNCF have just put on line a high power cable via the Channel tunnel to sell us electricity ,as well as the one that has big problems at this time "a big fire" that comes ashore near Dover,which seems to make a bit of a farce about HMGs power supply credentials

     

  • LLM
    LLM Forum Participant Posts: 1,554 ✭✭
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    edited September 2021 #44

    What constitutes a "proper" energy contract?

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman Forum Participant Posts: 2,367
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    edited September 2021 #45

    One that doesnt rely on spot prices, but agreed over a reasonable period. Its the only way a manufacturer can predict its price for contracts agreed. Similarly they hedge against currency variations. Basic business practice.

  • LLM
    LLM Forum Participant Posts: 1,554 ✭✭
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    edited September 2021 #46

    Basis business practice and contracting includes for the protection of both or all parties, the provision to amend prices, suspend, terminate, and do a host of other things in exceptional circumstances. 

    The massive and sudden rise in prices we have seen recently will have triggered some of those clauses. No amount of hedging can entirely cover such changes. For a limited period the larger companies can take the rises on the chin but those less well funded will and have, gone under.  Unless prices drop and/or we the customers foot the prices rises through our bills even the largest domestic providers are at risk.  

    As an example if you read the small print included in the contract you signed with your supplier you will see examples of the type of clauses include to deal with exceptional circumstances.  If you are on a fixed price contract you will almost certainly find that it is not set in stone.  

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman Forum Participant Posts: 2,367
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    edited September 2021 #47

    Certainly agree in the domestic market as the contracts are written solely by the suppliers. More robust in the commercial sector.

  • Oneputt
    Oneputt Club Member Posts: 9,144 ✭✭✭
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    edited October 2021 #48

    Strange isn’t it, 2 weeks ago the press was full of CO2 shortages and that the world will fall apart.  No mention of CO2 for at least 7/8 days.  Perhaps the story didn’t have the desired effect so they, the press, started on about petrol shortages, that did have the desired effect so as they are on a roll they now pretend that Xmas will be cancelled.  The press need to take a more responsible attitude. 

    Haven’t read anything in the main stream press that the new electric cables from Norway have been commissioned and switched on

  • Rocky 2 buckets
    Rocky 2 buckets Forum Participant Posts: 7,101
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    edited October 2021 #49

    Another bit of Fake news from the main stream media is-‘poultry will not be on Brit tables this Christmas, shortages already’. Asda has lots, Tesco has lots, freezer stores has lots. Yup OP they are indulging in control of the Lemmings. This can be easily countered by doing research, stop the mass manipulation. . .We have the answers👍🏻

  • brue
    brue Forum Participant Posts: 21,176 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    edited October 2021 #50

    Doing research shows that many poultry farmers have cut back on the amount of stock they rear due to lack of seasonal processing workers. 

    Our local farm has taken orders for turkeys but the order book is now closed.

  • Rocky 2 buckets
    Rocky 2 buckets Forum Participant Posts: 7,101
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    edited October 2021 #51

    But it isn’t countrywide nor is it now so it can be planned going forward👏🏻

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman Forum Participant Posts: 2,367
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    edited October 2021 #52

    Strange how CO2 went out of the news. Media now focused on next scare story, Petrol & Diesel. When that proves a flash in the pan will we go back to Toilet Rolls.

  • Bakers2
    Bakers2 Forum Participant Posts: 8,192 ✭✭✭
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    edited October 2021 #53

    Not Co2 but fuel.

    Having had 2 trips, I managed to get petrol after the 1st to indulge in the 2nd, and retain enough to travel for grandson's christening. I popped to out for a couple of bits in the car and to give the dog a good run in a very safe space. Hadn't topped up on our return from 2nd trip. Called in at Tesco, no queue, straight to a free pump, topped up to full again, £40, and noted both petrol only the one blend E10 despite pricing and pump labelled E5, both pumps £1.40 per litre 😱, and diesel available at every one of the 12 pumps. Papers still saying shortage in tge South and Southeast!

  • Unknown
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    edited October 2021 #54
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  • Rocky 2 buckets
    Rocky 2 buckets Forum Participant Posts: 7,101
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    edited October 2021 #55

    Or the manipulation of the public by partisan news outlets🤷🏻‍♂️

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman Forum Participant Posts: 2,367
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    edited October 2021 #56

    Could of course be the gullibility of the public. and reliance on social media hype. Not been to the pumps myself so have no local knowledge.  As Xmas turkeys (fresh) are not killed until 7/10 days before Xmas no panic there unless you are trying to force the prices up. Likewise hardly need co2 to extend their shelf life until boxing day. Stories appear to say shortages of everything world wide. How come?

  • EasyT
    EasyT Forum Participant Posts: 16,194
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    edited October 2021 #57

    I have seen no shortages near Queensferry in Flintshire. I had to pop to local ASDA about midday and went down the road to local Shell station. About 10 pumps and all fuels available. A car was just leaving and only me filling up until joined by a motorcycle as I was closing the fuel cap. It seemed to be not too busy at the ASDA station but our 22 year old Yaris gets premium 99 grade fuel as standard grade turns on the engine management light on a long steep climb.

  • Unknown
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    edited October 2021 #58
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  • Oneputt
    Oneputt Club Member Posts: 9,144 ✭✭✭
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    edited October 2021 #59

    The real problem is shipping and containers, 40 foot container prices have rocketed by almost 800%.  I’m sure there will be a knock on for tanker prices etc

  • brue
    brue Forum Participant Posts: 21,176 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    edited October 2021 #60

    The days of over stocked and over ordered food supplies are over, we will have to get used to waiting for rather than expecting food to be there 24/7. As Oneputt says container prices have rocketed, man power is short worldwide, it's going to affect many things. CO2 is part of the process. As for media outlets, they sell news and generally in the UK we have reliable news from established media groups but what we're hearing is a bit of a wake up call for changes ahead. Emerging economies are demanding the same things that we have and the pressure is on to meet these new demands, they want what we want.

    Rather than think we're being manipulated or being fed fake news it's aways good to check out what's going on in the world. IMHO. 

  • Rocky 2 buckets
    Rocky 2 buckets Forum Participant Posts: 7,101
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    edited October 2021 #61

    So we build up a network of home grown supply chains, going for the cheapest option doesn’t work as seen in the PPE scandal. We have everything we need in this country & the capability & infrastructure to supply it, we just bite the bullet & pay for it or we will constantly be held to ransom. It ain’t rocket science to most of us. Peoples lives depend on it.