Co 2

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  • Fisherman
    Fisherman Forum Participant Posts: 2,367
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    edited October 2021 #62

    We can supply everything. Power, Fuel, Food and Industrial products. Recent events have shown that outside sourcing is unreliable. Likewise quality control, welfare issues would be ours.  Lets start by only buying local, home grown products wherever possible. Soon pressure would grow on industry to match the demand.

  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
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    edited October 2021 #63

    At a price,undecided that is why we even import coal from Australia as it is cheaper than,home produced

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman Forum Participant Posts: 2,367
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    edited October 2021 #64

    Remember the old saying " cheapest not always the best". Many found that out with the Gas shortage. Likewise there is a fundamental problem with delivery of almost all commodities. Add on the Shipping cost of a container from China has exploded from 2K to 18K in a few months, and the cheap Chinese C..p is no longer looking good.

  • SeasideBill
    SeasideBill Forum Participant Posts: 2,112
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    edited October 2021 #65

    “We can supply everything”

    Not sure that applies to a decent bottle of red.

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman Forum Participant Posts: 2,367
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    edited October 2021 #66

    Did 100,000 HGV drivers and 10,000 Butchers from the EU leave overnight a fortnight ago?that seems to be the reason for all these shortages. Surely these business heard of the referendum in 2016.

  • SeasideBill
    SeasideBill Forum Participant Posts: 2,112
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    edited October 2021 #67

    Not sure about a fortnight ago, Logistics UK the trade body were predicting all this back in the Spring warning of a perfect storm when Brexit, cancelled HGV tests and upturn in demand post lock-down all coincided. It could have been anticipated, it could have been planned for, it could have been mitigated. Nothing much seems to happen unless precipitated by a crisis to expose the fragility of it all. 

  • Oneputt
    Oneputt Club Member Posts: 9,144 ✭✭✭
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    edited October 2021 #68

    Truckin' all over the World

    1. The IRU - Truck driver shortages in 2021 expected to increase by over 25% worldwide

    The International Road Transport Union (IRU) is the voice of more than 3.5 million companiesoperating mobility and logistics services in over 100 countries. Here is the IRU in June this year, following a member survey:-

    “Truck driver shortages are expected to increase in 2021 by over a quarter on 2020 levels in almost all of the 23 countries surveyed in IRU’s recent global survey of road transport firms.

    “Gaps are set to increase at a much higher rate in some countries, including by 150% in Spain, 175% in Mexico and 192% in Turkey… Almost 40% of road transport operators surveyed cite skills gaps as the number one cause of driver shortages, in markets as diverse as the Czech Republic, Norway and Romania to Russia, Ukraine and Mexico.”

    “As we look beyond the pandemic, many operators will find it impossible to find drivers to meet future customer demand.”
    2. British International Freight Association (BIFA) – European shortage of drivers reported in 2018

    With some 1500 members, BIFA represents organisations engaged in the movement of freight to/from the UK by all modes of transport: air, road, sea and rail. Some members are also provide customs clearance and other cross border services.

    Back in 2018 (before Brexit took place), BIFA cited the European Road Freight Transport report 2018, showing that in just six countries – the UK, Germany, France, Denmark, Sweden and Norway – the shortage of drivers added up to 127,500.

    “The UK led the way with a shortage of 52,000 drivers, but was closely followed by Germany at 45,000 vacancies – with predictions that this could increase by a staggering 28,000 each year.

    “France had a shortage of 20,000 drivers, while road freight associations in Sweden, Denmark and Norway reported shortages of 5,000, 2,500 and 3,000, respectively.”
    And this was all in 2018, well ahead of Brexit. Since then, further industry intelligence reports have shown the driver shortages in the major EU countries to have risen dramatically. Some of the latest studies show shortages of over 400,000 drivers in the EU27.

    3. The (UK) Road Haulage Association

    In July this year (2021) the RHA conducted a survey about driver shortages. The No.1 reason given by the respondents was ‘drivers retiring’ (58.54%). The RHA also made it clear that there has been a problem in the industry for years.

    “Prior to the pandemic, [and therefore <b– Ed.] we estimated a shortage in excess of 60,000. At that time UK road transport businesses employed approximately 600,000 HGV drivers, including 60,000 from EU member states”
    As part of the survey the RHA also asked about the current impact of driver shortages : “On an average day last week, what proportion of your fleet was idle because there was no driver available?”

    Almost two-thirds (65%) stated the proportion of their fleet that was idle due to driver shortages was below 10%. Whilst there are undoubtedly driver shortages, if this survey is right then the problem needs to be seen in proportion.

    The RHA also highlighted the problems caused by HMRC’s new tax treatment of self-employed drivers, under what are called ‘IR35’ rules. This has caused drivers to leave the industry.

    “The large hauliers say that IR35 is the main reason for the current driver shortage crisis.”

    - RHA Report on the Driver Shortage, 21 Jul 2021

  • Wherenext
    Wherenext Club Member Posts: 10,586 ✭✭✭
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    edited October 2021 #69

    Nice bit of research OneP.

    The conditions for drivers in this country is appalling. A local villager packed it in just before Covid hit and the tales he tells of lack of facilities, security problems, work schedules, loneliness etc. makes it easy for me to understand why there is a lack of willingness to work in the industry. He's had a letter asking him to go back but he's much happier working locally, as a driver, but not HGV.

  • nelliethehooker
    nelliethehooker Club Member Posts: 13,636
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    edited October 2021 #70

    There are lots of fresh produce that we are unable to produce in our climate, or if we can it is at such an exorbitant price that the average person is unable to afford it.....citrus fruit for one, hence no orange juice etc.

  • DavidKlyne
    DavidKlyne Club Member Posts: 13,856 ✭✭✭
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    edited October 2021 #71

    Having had 14000 EU drivers leave the UK due to Brexit/COVID does leave a gap which we could do without. Now there could be all sorts of reasons why they left but unless they wanted to take settled status before they left, assuming they were entitled to it, it was unlikely that they would come back. Oneputt might be right about tax changes but I don't know much about that. Anyone from the EU now wanting to work in the UK has to spend about £3000 upfront, about £700 for a visa, another £700 to provide health cover and they have to demonstrate they have enough money to survive until their first pay date. So hardly an encouragement for them to come. 

    There is another issue with lorry drivers which is not mentioned much but those that do cross between the EU and the UK used to take back a return load. There has been a substantial drop in the number of return loads, no doubt because of extra paperwork. In itself it would not be a massive problem but given the shortage of drivers it just adds to the problem. So there are lots of contributing factors for the position we now find ourselves in and its something we are going to have to live with. 

    David

  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
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    edited October 2021 #72

    Untill the conditions and pay for HGV drivers or most freight drivers improves there will be a shortage worldwide ,as now 

     With transport companies competing for business ,the most expensive as In. most Industries. Is staff ,so if as said in several quarters ,drivers need to be paid a much better wage to attract more, the costs will  be passed on too us the consumer, 

    The building. Industry is in the same situation  but as one of our neighbours have said it has been cheap Eastern Europe labour that has meant he and other UK workers In that industry have not had a pay rise for years    ,it  means extra hours working that has been their pay rise and normally on basic wages even at weekends

    We think costs living has gone up now it seems the future will, be even worse,

    The Hospitality industry is struggling to get staff this side of it included as can be seen with shortages on sites ,with "site support" relief staff not having enough to cover sites 

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman Forum Participant Posts: 2,367
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    edited October 2021 #73

    Swap your orange juice for apple. Plenty going to waste in this country. Many of the items we import are not necessary, just lasynes and the power of advertising. Buy Uk and locally. Better for the economy and haulage.

  • SeasideBill
    SeasideBill Forum Participant Posts: 2,112
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    edited October 2021 #74

    Implicit within Brexit is the principle that we ‘grow our own’ and don’t rely on non UK labour. The sustainability of that policy was never properly debated. Whether it be road haulage, hospitality or healthcare, too many signed up for that without thinking it through, not least how we might achieve it. At the very least we might expect to see an education, training and development programme to underpin that process, but it’s not even slightly on the radar.

  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
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    edited October 2021 #75

    Where are the staff coming from to stop all the waste,   it is the low wages ,that seems to be stopping  some of this countries benefits claiments from taking work as their payments will be cut?

  • brue
    brue Forum Participant Posts: 21,176 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    edited October 2021 #76

    Yes to a previous post, logistics went out of fashion, it was all tactics. Now we have to get back to reality, we are short of working people in many areas no matter the pay levels.

  • Rocky 2 buckets
    Rocky 2 buckets Forum Participant Posts: 7,101
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    edited October 2021 #77

    JV, I have family in construction, they are paid well, your neighbour is telling you porkys-

  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
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    edited October 2021 #78

    What area are they in? ,headlines are headlines untill they are disected,,as most media reportsundecided

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman Forum Participant Posts: 2,367
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    edited October 2021 #79

    Processors have had since 2016 to mechanise most horticultural jobs .Long enough surely.

  • Rocky 2 buckets
    Rocky 2 buckets Forum Participant Posts: 7,101
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    edited October 2021 #80

    It’s the construction industry generally JV. The Govt are demanding more houses be built, the Govt lowered stamp duty, add to that rents are astronomically high-folk are moving into houses & buying them. It ain’t rocket science JV, read the news & listen to folk, not so much neighbours mind🤷🏻‍♂️

  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
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    edited October 2021 #81

    You really should not take notice of the media  the truth will out in the endundecided

  • brue
    brue Forum Participant Posts: 21,176 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    edited October 2021 #82

    We went to a talk about this, just before Covid, some of the mechanisation is impressive but is ongoing. It is a practical solution in an age where we have a smaller working population generally. Probably better than expecting everyone to work till they're seventy. 

  • cyberyacht
    cyberyacht Forum Participant Posts: 10,218
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    edited October 2021 #83

    Given the shortage of staff across the board, I wonder if we are still shelling out 'jobseekers allowance' other than for very short periods?

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman Forum Participant Posts: 2,367
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    edited October 2021 #84

    Like everything ,nothing happens until the s... hits the fan.

  • Rocky 2 buckets
    Rocky 2 buckets Forum Participant Posts: 7,101
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    edited October 2021 #85

    I have family in the construction industry, which is a bit more reliable than your ‘neighbour’ JV. They are happy with their wage, although one is seriously considering Truck driving👍🏻

  • Takethedogalong
    Takethedogalong Forum Participant Posts: 17,027 ✭✭✭
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    edited October 2021 #86

    I have never seen as much new build happening, in all the areas we visited, from Scotland down to Lands End. Construction industry is indeed booming. 

    I’m afraid some of the rest of the shambles happening at the moment was predictable. And whilst efforts have been made to blame Covid for most of it, it simply isn’t the case. Covid has had a huge impact in some ways, but not entirely. HGV drivers retiring was top of the list. But Brexit and its impact is a very close second in terms of the Hauliers Association figures. 

    The Government is desperately seeking to replace HGV drivers. I cited the letter my BIL received two weeks after retiring from Fire Service. Another little gem is something to do with German license holders. They  have some sort of clause that allows them to drive higher weights. Lovely tale of a German chap and his wife in London who were sent a letter asking if they would be interested, offered a big bonus. German gent declined, decided he was better off sticking with his Merchant Banker career. His wife wasn’t interested either. You couldn’t make it up......🤷‍♀️
    https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/germans-uk-government-lorry-hgv-drivers-293241/

     

  • EasyT
    EasyT Forum Participant Posts: 16,194
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    edited October 2021 #87

    There is a shortage of HGV drivers in many parts of EU

  • Wherenext
    Wherenext Club Member Posts: 10,586 ✭✭✭
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    edited October 2021 #88

    It's not just Lorry Drivers shortages. That makes nice headlines.

    I was reading an interesting article in the today about all of the shortage problems affecting us at the moment.

    One thing which stuck out more than any other was the fact that a Farmers Co-Op in Fife, representing 15 local Brassica growing farmers have had over 7 million heads of Broccoli and Cauliflowers left to rot as they can't get the pickers or the packers. They've lost over £2m between them.

    There was a comment from a different grower that whilst Lorry drivers may suddenly appear from nowhere it wouldn't make any difference to them if they can't get the produce from the field to the lorry. This is just one relatively small operation in the grand scheme of things. 

    The Irony is that we'll now have to import fruit and veg from Europe to make up the shortfall. I've been noticing more of my cabbage purchases come from Spain these days.

  • Takethedogalong
    Takethedogalong Forum Participant Posts: 17,027 ✭✭✭
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    edited October 2021 #89

    There are a good number of jobs/type of work that this Island’s population don't  fancy doing, field work, abattoir work, vets who work in abattoirs, endless hours on the road not least. All were predicted at least a couple of years ago. 

    We try and avoid stuff grown in Southern Spain WN, conditions for migrant workers are appalling. Not easy though, many of the businesses out there are British owned.

  • brue
    brue Forum Participant Posts: 21,176 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    edited October 2021 #90

    Just had a look at some of my veg purchases this week, spring greens from Lincs, lettuce from Cambs, carrots from Worcs, not too bad really.

  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
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    edited October 2021 #91

    Just goes if they are jumping ship to go goods driving when their hourly rate was about £11.20 how poor some pay is in the construction industry  ,where my neighbour is also employed , so I think would be quite capable of knowing his wagewink

    OHs son on about.  £31per hour is amazed we can do what we do on our pensionscool