Interesting Petition Part 2

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  • Kennine
    Kennine Forum Participant Posts: 3,472
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    edited August 2018 #32

    Since the question of L/A's and "something for free" for Motorhomers has been raised -----  May I say that many Local Authorities are already favouring Caravanners by providing free camping to large groups, on land which is entirely unsuitable, -- without any urgency in moving them on. wink

    smilesmilewink

  • Tinwheeler
    Tinwheeler Forum Participant Trusted Posts: 23,345
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    edited August 2018 #33

    Hmm, I saw that near Perth a few years back.

  • Unknown
    edited August 2018 #34
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  • mickysf
    mickysf Club Member Posts: 6,492
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    edited August 2018 #35

    I must agree that the petition was probably aimed at the wrong target. Like others I'd agree our towns, cities and villages could benefit from 'Aires'. May be LAs, and councils should have been to whom the demand, better still, request should have been made.

    I'm not aware of many councils which run camp/caravan sites but here is one local to me. https://www.lincoln.gov.uk/visitors/parks-and-open-spaces/hartsholme-country-park/hartsholme-country-park-campsite/

    Maybe if the petition had requested help from such councils and LAs etc. the support would have been significantly greater in number. I'm sure if run well, like many in Europe , these overnight stop offs would be a financial asset to many communities

     

  • SteveL
    SteveL Club Member Posts: 12,372
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    edited August 2018 #36

    Where parking is under used you may well have a point David. However, in a lot of popular urban areas, it is at a premium during the day. I would have thought it is in these sort of areas that Aires would be most desirable, close to attractions, restaurants etc. Are the MH's only permitted after a certain time? If not and the spaces are wanted during the day the price would have to be more than a few pounds. Parking can often be £8 / 10 a day or more. So for 24 hours let's say £15. I wonder how many takers there will be at that price. Or are the local tax payers supposed to subsidise them, as if they are filled with MH's during the day, they will remove parking for 2 / 3 cars.

  • Unknown
    edited August 2018 #37
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  • brue
    brue Forum Participant Posts: 21,176
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    edited August 2018 #38

    I presume the idea is that motorhomes park up all day so that their owners can see the local sights and then return to their vans for the night, a 24 hr parking system for some. The limitations of this will be LAs in areas where there are attractions will benefit, not so much in more rural places or towns without visitor attractions.

    Small villages in France often have an appeal, maybe some in the uk but I think many users would be heading for the cities or sites of natural beauty.

  • Unknown
    edited August 2018 #39
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  • Unknown
    edited August 2018 #40
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  • brue
    brue Forum Participant Posts: 21,176
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    edited August 2018 #41

    On Shetland all the sites are community run, often with very good facilities and open to all, from walkers to vans, there are alternatives around but not all communities want this. Our village has a car park but it's shared with the school and we have to have barriers up in one part to prevent unauthorised access.

    I'm ok with the idea of spaces in car parks if LA's want to try it or want to find a solution to excessive existing M/H overnight parking causing a nuisance to residents and visitors. 

    Some motorhomers want to wander and park at will but not all by any means.

  • SteveL
    SteveL Club Member Posts: 12,372
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    edited August 2018 #42

    Somebody stated earlier that was at the park and ride. Is that not the case.? If so that is a totally different concept and I am sure could work in many locations. Parking charges are much less than nearer the town centres, where you can walk to the attractions.

  • yorksman
    yorksman Forum Participant Posts: 30
    edited August 2018 #43

    “This is an exciting and historic moment for our Club. While the heart of our community remains the same, our new name reflects how our membership has changed and grown. We will focus on developing pioneering new ideas and services which share our expertise, inspire and welcome everyone to the freedom of exploring and enjoying adventures in the great outdoors.”

    quote from our chairman.

     

    the club has to move with the times to exist.

    i use club sites all the time because thats what i like, but it is now getting very difficult to book pitches at weekends . a lot of friday and saturday nights are taken by members in transit with one night stops which stops other members being able to book a weeks holiday or a weekend away. therefore i would welcome this type of stopover freeing up pitches for other members.

     

  • Cornersteady
    Cornersteady Club Member Posts: 14,623
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    edited August 2018 #44

    if of course people who use a club site would be happy to use a layby?

  • Tinwheeler
    Tinwheeler Forum Participant Trusted Posts: 23,345
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    edited August 2018 #45

    I think that’s pure speculation, Yman. 

    Other people swear that Fridays and Saturdays are taken by families who have to work through the week and can only get away at weekends. I doubt they would use aires.

    We all have equal rights to book what we need, whether if be one night, a weekend or a whole week but that’s a different issue.

     

    Edit: We cross posted, Corners.😀

  • Cornersteady
    Cornersteady Club Member Posts: 14,623
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    edited August 2018 #46

    +1smile

    yes it's been posted many times, 'weekenders stopping longer stayers'

     

  • yorksman
    yorksman Forum Participant Posts: 30
    edited August 2018 #47

    don't recall mentioning laybys.

  • Unknown
    edited August 2018 #48
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  • yorksman
    yorksman Forum Participant Posts: 30
    edited August 2018 #49

    speculation maybe, who knows. but i agree we all have the right to book what we need. when i first joint the club in the early 80s you just turned up at a site without booking, i think we were spoilt then.

  • nelliethehooker
    nelliethehooker Club Member Posts: 13,950
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    edited August 2018 #50

    Surely the whole of MT's post & the petition is divisive, as it's trying to get something for nothing (or very little) paid for by all caravan owners &/or council tax payers to the benefit of certain M/H owners.

  • Tinwheeler
    Tinwheeler Forum Participant Trusted Posts: 23,345
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    edited August 2018 #51

    It sure is, Nellie. I think I called the petition selfish in the other thread for that reason.

  • Cornersteady
    Cornersteady Club Member Posts: 14,623
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    edited August 2018 #52

    no you didn't sorry, but it is a similar idea. 

  • Cornersteady
    Cornersteady Club Member Posts: 14,623
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    edited August 2018 #53

    a big plus 1 there. Exactly what I said before.

    Those for this arrangmnet are perhaps just thinking of themselves, which is OK perhaps, but then they try to pass this off as being in the 'best interests' of club members? 

  • SteveL
    SteveL Club Member Posts: 12,372
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    edited August 2018 #54

    surely, making (say) 6 MH spaces from 9 car spaces can't be a big issue of the MHs are charged a (slightly) higher rate.

     

    Thats some fairly close spacing BB, for MH's possibly using cooking appliances and gas heating. All the things that on a conventional site require 6 metres for safety.

    Our X Trail at 4.5 metres just about fits in a typical car parking space and we normally can't fully open the doors. So given that even the smaller MH, we are considering, is 6.5 m x 2.15. Things are going to a bit cosy. 

    If the cost for parking a car is £8 for a normal day,  fairly modest in a lot of towns, that's £12 for the day time, then perhaps a further £4 for the overnight. Even if the overnight charges are waived, as perhaps no revenue would be made then, we are still left with £12. That is if you can fit an average of 6 vans into 9 spaces, which I seriously doubt.

    As to revenue being brought in. The 9 cars will bring in more spending consumers than the 6 MH's.

    As I said the concept is very logical for an out of town park and ride, where space is not at a premium and parking charges moderate. Not quite as convienient though, as often the connecting buses stop fairly early on.

     

  • Unknown
    edited August 2018 #55
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  • nelliethehooker
    nelliethehooker Club Member Posts: 13,950
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    edited August 2018 #56

    i don't remember all the clubs MH protesting vehemently that the club was spending money solely on caravaners' interests...

    Such as?

  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
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    edited August 2018 #57

    Like the thousands the club is spending to cater for motor caravan owners because their chosen type of LV has poor waste disposal  facilities undecided

  • Cornersteady
    Cornersteady Club Member Posts: 14,623
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    edited August 2018 #58

     

    BB you really can't call a post or someone's opinion rubbish

    It is rude!

  • Unknown
    edited August 2018 #59
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  • Barge1914
    Barge1914 Forum Participant Posts: 8
    edited August 2018 #60

    I refer to recent threads on the subject of facilities for motorhomes. 

    We are club members, we have a motorhome, yet we hardly ever use club sites. Why? Our motorhome is fully autonomous, it has shower, toilet and washing facilities. It makes no economic sense to pay for sanitary buildings, for reception buildings and staff, large pitches capable of accommodating a caravan, awning and car. All that is needed is limited overnight standing space, tap and drain access. 

    We use our vehicle for touring not staying long term. For medical reasons I cannot drive more than 1 or 2 hours on any day, often less, hence a typical trip involves lots of stops, sometimes often unplanned as the need or desire to stop arises. We are retired,  tours may extend up to 3 months by which means step by step we may still make long journeys we could otherwise never make. It is quite impractical to book far ahead, besides club sites are frequently fully booked. We need to be able to turn up and stay. Our needs are not unrepresentative of motorhomers in general. 

    We travel throughout the year, most sites are closed in winter, many CLs unusable for motorhomes due to soft ground. 

    We have largely given up on travelling in England where there seems to be a hostility to motorhomes and a dire lack of appropriate facilities. In France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Austria, Norway, Sweden, Belgium, and others, even New Zealand, America and Australia, the rest of the world seems to have caught up onto the value of welcoming and providing suitable facilities for motorhome tourism. 

    Indeed many of the facilities (Aires, Stellplatze, Aree de Sosta or whatever) are provided by LAs., but by no means all. Yes, it is in many ways improbable that many cash strapped UK LAs will be able to respond to the need, although a few have...most simply provide prohibitory signs moving the problem down the road. Many foreign LAs provide campsites, UK ones don’t. In UK Clubs have come to be the major providers of leisure camping facilities. If any club claims the name Motorhome it is peddling a fiction if it fails to accept a responsibility to respond to the needs of motorhoming members...both in regard of the services it provides itself and in its lobbying of others...if it doesn’t it should be come clean and drop the name.

    Many European campsites have now in recognition of changing markets given over part of their sites to providing an adjoining motorhome Aire, with basic water and drainage facility and parking on a turn up and stay basis...not really all that complicated, and they seem to be working very well.

    The CC&MC has done much to encourage land owners to establish CL caravan sites. Perhaps some thought should be given to also looking at doing so likewise for motorhome facilities...with a more appropriate set of rules and orientation, and perhaps in closer consultation with LAs and Tourist bodies, some of whom are already struggling somewhat clumsily with an inundation of motorhomes.

    I find it incomprehensible that threads on this subject have been be summarily and arbitrarily closed, and as a member abhor any such attempt at censorship.

  • moulesy
    moulesy Forum Participant Trusted Posts: 9,412
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    edited August 2018 #61

    I wonder how much money was spent on the caravan MOT issue? Peanuts, I'd guess compared to what this petition is calling for. Maybe it's worth repeating (or maybe not) that for most, at least, it's not the provision of this facility which is the issue, it's the expectation, as demanded in the petition, that the club should "own or manage" these sites. Good to see that even the most entusiastic aire supporters see it likewise.

    As I said earlier, as far as this thread is concerned it's deja vu, all over again! wink