Interesting Petition Part 2
Comments
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Since the question of L/A's and "something for free" for Motorhomers has been raised ----- May I say that many Local Authorities are already favouring Caravanners by providing free camping to large groups, on land which is entirely unsuitable, -- without any urgency in moving them on.
K
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Hmm, I saw that near Perth a few years back.
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Michael, yes it's not really difficult, or expensive to do....and why 'arts' over MH provision?....I'm sure most LA budgets have some pretty 'interesting' elements, albeit small, which most of us wouldn't understand....
but MH provision, by altering a car park or two, adding a barrier for that area and creating a pay on entey secure system isnt expensive.
no one is asking for green field sites, buying land and what have you, merely looking to make profitable use from existing car parks.
i can see that you're a convert and I get that many on here don't understand the concept...they only use club sites and don't tour abroad....but French aires (well sited close to beaches or towns) are often full, even at those which charge in the region of €10.this is a fair price for a parking space, which is all that's being considered....Aires users don't want wardens, showers, toilets, EHU or any of the infrastructure that might attract folk to club sites.
i think DK is along the right lines (literally).... change a few strategic car parks to properly provision MH daytime parking at a fair price.
if it's well taken up, and is making proper cash, extend to overnight and consider allowing MH to make use of P/R sites which currently are height barriered, despite MH being happy to pay (say) a car and a half fee for a car and half space....
...and as for the comment re MH prices...they vary tremendously but tow cars these days are also mightily expensive.....perhaps views on huge 4x4 parking all over the place are no different.
as it happens, we are making use of CCC THS sites which are cheap, no frills, close to towns and require no booking......this works for us...
..but, while I don't see CC getting involved for lots it was interesting to see their reaction and that of CT.....fairly predictable in both departments...
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I must agree that the petition was probably aimed at the wrong target. Like others I'd agree our towns, cities and villages could benefit from 'Aires'. May be LAs, and councils should have been to whom the demand, better still, request should have been made.
I'm not aware of many councils which run camp/caravan sites but here is one local to me. https://www.lincoln.gov.uk/visitors/parks-and-open-spaces/hartsholme-country-park/hartsholme-country-park-campsite/
Maybe if the petition had requested help from such councils and LAs etc. the support would have been significantly greater in number. I'm sure if run well, like many in Europe , these overnight stop offs would be a financial asset to many communities
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Where parking is under used you may well have a point David. However, in a lot of popular urban areas, it is at a premium during the day. I would have thought it is in these sort of areas that Aires would be most desirable, close to attractions, restaurants etc. Are the MH's only permitted after a certain time? If not and the spaces are wanted during the day the price would have to be more than a few pounds. Parking can often be £8 / 10 a day or more. So for 24 hours let's say £15. I wonder how many takers there will be at that price. Or are the local tax payers supposed to subsidise them, as if they are filled with MH's during the day, they will remove parking for 2 / 3 cars.
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K, spot on...a dozen or so in Glastonbury along a 'proper' highway (no tow cars, vans just parked in a row) old kit all over the place, a real mess...
if my car were parked on the road (that road) not taxed, it could be taken and crushed, but these monstrosities are allowed to fester (literally) for months on end.....and then someone has to clear up...
still, I guess it would be 'wrong' to move them on as they are (no doubt) part of some hard up minority...that can't be 'victimised'...unlike me.
theyre on a road that's part of my local cycle route, I see them very regularly....so it's not just MHs that could be considered a blight, and we are talking about MHs who are happy to pay....in a proper car park...
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I presume the idea is that motorhomes park up all day so that their owners can see the local sights and then return to their vans for the night, a 24 hr parking system for some. The limitations of this will be LAs in areas where there are attractions will benefit, not so much in more rural places or towns without visitor attractions.
Small villages in France often have an appeal, maybe some in the uk but I think many users would be heading for the cities or sites of natural beauty.
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M, agreed....we've stayed at Hartsholme, very nice and well sited...part of its attraction...
yes, well run Aires can provide income directly to the LA through charges but also into the community due to the cash being spent by those who stop there...
the last two trips back upto Cherbourg, we've stopped at Avranches at the aire....now this is free, but we would have paid to use it as the town is lovely and both times we've had meals in town.
MHers want to stop when the mood takes them, and where they stop the town will benefit....
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isn't Canterbury a 'popular' place?
this LA has bucked the trend and decided that MHers (obviously loaded considering their flashy vehicles) might just use the local restaurants, butcher, baker and candlestick maker given the chance...
it seems to working...
ok, Canterbury has a lot going for it....but so does a very large number of towns/cities across the UK....
however, there are very many town High St with loads of boarded up shops, leaving only coffee and charity shops....o would have thought some of these would have welcomed the MH pound with open arms..
however, no skin off my nose, we just go where they do it properly...
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On Shetland all the sites are community run, often with very good facilities and open to all, from walkers to vans, there are alternatives around but not all communities want this. Our village has a car park but it's shared with the school and we have to have barriers up in one part to prevent unauthorised access.
I'm ok with the idea of spaces in car parks if LA's want to try it or want to find a solution to excessive existing M/H overnight parking causing a nuisance to residents and visitors.
Some motorhomers want to wander and park at will but not all by any means.
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Somebody stated earlier that was at the park and ride. Is that not the case.? If so that is a totally different concept and I am sure could work in many locations. Parking charges are much less than nearer the town centres, where you can walk to the attractions.
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“This is an exciting and historic moment for our Club. While the heart of our community remains the same, our new name reflects how our membership has changed and grown. We will focus on developing pioneering new ideas and services which share our expertise, inspire and welcome everyone to the freedom of exploring and enjoying adventures in the great outdoors.”
quote from our chairman.
the club has to move with the times to exist.
i use club sites all the time because thats what i like, but it is now getting very difficult to book pitches at weekends . a lot of friday and saturday nights are taken by members in transit with one night stops which stops other members being able to book a weeks holiday or a weekend away. therefore i would welcome this type of stopover freeing up pitches for other members.
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if of course people who use a club site would be happy to use a layby?
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I think that’s pure speculation, Yman.
Other people swear that Fridays and Saturdays are taken by families who have to work through the week and can only get away at weekends. I doubt they would use aires.
We all have equal rights to book what we need, whether if be one night, a weekend or a whole week but that’s a different issue.
Edit: We cross posted, Corners.😀
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+1
yes it's been posted many times, 'weekenders stopping longer stayers'
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Steve, I mentioned P/R in my earlier post...IMV there are at least two ways to skin this carrot (AMOBUTS) and P/Ris one, along with updating inner town car parks to incorporate a small number of MH spaces...
surely, making (say) 6 MH spaces from 9 car spaces can't be a big issue of the MHs are charged a (slightly) higher rate.
we are all happy to criticise Mway service stations for the non provision (or non protection of) caravan/MH spaces....we all want to park where we need to...
caravans/MHs need parking on the mway for breaks, MH users need spaces in towns to visit in an equal footing as cars...
think about the 2/3 cars you are depriving of parking spaces when you next pull into a mway services....
as said, no one is looking for free overnight parking in town centres, but a fair price for the privilege seems a decent arrangement.
again, no one is worried about pay barriers if 'undesirables' are an issue, but to dismiss a small slice of the pie because of what might happen to a small number of cars is far too simplistic.
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Surely the whole of MT's post & the petition is divisive, as it's trying to get something for nothing (or very little) paid for by all caravan owners &/or council tax payers to the benefit of certain M/H owners.
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It sure is, Nellie. I think I called the petition selfish in the other thread for that reason.
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no you didn't sorry, but it is a similar idea.
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a big plus 1 there. Exactly what I said before.
Those for this arrangmnet are perhaps just thinking of themselves, which is OK perhaps, but then they try to pass this off as being in the 'best interests' of club members?
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surely, making (say) 6 MH spaces from 9 car spaces can't be a big issue of the MHs are charged a (slightly) higher rate.
Thats some fairly close spacing BB, for MH's possibly using cooking appliances and gas heating. All the things that on a conventional site require 6 metres for safety.
Our X Trail at 4.5 metres just about fits in a typical car parking space and we normally can't fully open the doors. So given that even the smaller MH, we are considering, is 6.5 m x 2.15. Things are going to a bit cosy.
If the cost for parking a car is £8 for a normal day, fairly modest in a lot of towns, that's £12 for the day time, then perhaps a further £4 for the overnight. Even if the overnight charges are waived, as perhaps no revenue would be made then, we are still left with £12. That is if you can fit an average of 6 vans into 9 spaces, which I seriously doubt.
As to revenue being brought in. The 9 cars will bring in more spending consumers than the 6 MH's.
As I said the concept is very logical for an out of town park and ride, where space is not at a premium and parking charges moderate. Not quite as convienient though, as often the connecting buses stop fairly early on.
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do you mean you think the Aires system in France is similar to using laybys?
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i don't remember all the clubs MH protesting vehemently that the club was spending money solely on caravaners' interests...
Such as?
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BB you really can't call a post or someone's opinion rubbish
It is rude!
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but the MH owners are vastly wealthy (according to an earlier 'observation') thus bring the balance of spending back into equilibrium.
either way, this same consideration is made to you and I at mway services where we have our own dedicated spaces....perhaps the operators should repaint them all as car spaces and give caravan mway service users the same consideration MHers get in most towns....
not a lot.
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I refer to recent threads on the subject of facilities for motorhomes.
We are club members, we have a motorhome, yet we hardly ever use club sites. Why? Our motorhome is fully autonomous, it has shower, toilet and washing facilities. It makes no economic sense to pay for sanitary buildings, for reception buildings and staff, large pitches capable of accommodating a caravan, awning and car. All that is needed is limited overnight standing space, tap and drain access.
We use our vehicle for touring not staying long term. For medical reasons I cannot drive more than 1 or 2 hours on any day, often less, hence a typical trip involves lots of stops, sometimes often unplanned as the need or desire to stop arises. We are retired, tours may extend up to 3 months by which means step by step we may still make long journeys we could otherwise never make. It is quite impractical to book far ahead, besides club sites are frequently fully booked. We need to be able to turn up and stay. Our needs are not unrepresentative of motorhomers in general.
We travel throughout the year, most sites are closed in winter, many CLs unusable for motorhomes due to soft ground.
We have largely given up on travelling in England where there seems to be a hostility to motorhomes and a dire lack of appropriate facilities. In France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Austria, Norway, Sweden, Belgium, and others, even New Zealand, America and Australia, the rest of the world seems to have caught up onto the value of welcoming and providing suitable facilities for motorhome tourism.
Indeed many of the facilities (Aires, Stellplatze, Aree de Sosta or whatever) are provided by LAs., but by no means all. Yes, it is in many ways improbable that many cash strapped UK LAs will be able to respond to the need, although a few have...most simply provide prohibitory signs moving the problem down the road. Many foreign LAs provide campsites, UK ones don’t. In UK Clubs have come to be the major providers of leisure camping facilities. If any club claims the name Motorhome it is peddling a fiction if it fails to accept a responsibility to respond to the needs of motorhoming members...both in regard of the services it provides itself and in its lobbying of others...if it doesn’t it should be come clean and drop the name.
Many European campsites have now in recognition of changing markets given over part of their sites to providing an adjoining motorhome Aire, with basic water and drainage facility and parking on a turn up and stay basis...not really all that complicated, and they seem to be working very well.
The CC&MC has done much to encourage land owners to establish CL caravan sites. Perhaps some thought should be given to also looking at doing so likewise for motorhome facilities...with a more appropriate set of rules and orientation, and perhaps in closer consultation with LAs and Tourist bodies, some of whom are already struggling somewhat clumsily with an inundation of motorhomes.
I find it incomprehensible that threads on this subject have been be summarily and arbitrarily closed, and as a member abhor any such attempt at censorship.
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I wonder how much money was spent on the caravan MOT issue? Peanuts, I'd guess compared to what this petition is calling for. Maybe it's worth repeating (or maybe not) that for most, at least, it's not the provision of this facility which is the issue, it's the expectation, as demanded in the petition, that the club should "own or manage" these sites. Good to see that even the most entusiastic aire supporters see it likewise.
As I said earlier, as far as this thread is concerned it's deja vu, all over again!
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