Interesting Petition Part 2
Comments
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Removal of height barriers at P&Rs would be a major breakthrough quite apart from anything else. Retention of them would suggest that Councils would prefer MH's parked on their crowded streets or squeezed into unsuitable car parks.
Aire type provision is probably not something to be pursued by the Club but if local councils wish to see a reversal of the "ghost high street" it may well pay them to consider some sort of provision for MH's to encourage increased footfall. Inaccessibility will mean the M'homers will go elsewhere.
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Hi everyone,
We would like to keep this discussion open so people can post their views and thoughts however please keep this discussion friendly and constructive because if it turns to arguments we may have to close it.
A polite reminder of the Community Guidelines, and to ask those who wish to use Club Together to abide by these.
Many thanks and thank you to those who have shared their views here.
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I don't think for a moment that height barriers at Park-and-Ride facilities are there to keep out motor caravans. They are there to keep out a different type of caravan dweller entirely.
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+1
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Surely all that is being ask is that LA's consider making provision for larger vehicles like motorhomes to make use of often under used parking facilities by creating say half a dozen suitable size parking bays. The cost of painting a few white lines in an existing underused car park would be minimal.Any costs would be quickly recouped over a fairly short period as they would be getting additional parking fees from motorhomers who currently can't park there especially as they would justifiably being paying more than a car.
Many carparks do not have the spacing between rows for motorhomes in town areas ans do not want overnight camping disturbing residents. Yes there are some suited car parks on the edge of many towns including some P&R sites and those carparks with coach facilities.
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Just a guess at percentages, but ................ MOT on trailers probably affected over 60% of members. Provision of aires might affect what percentage of membership? What percentage of motorhomers who are CC members want and would use them in the UK?
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+1 again, so far the petition has attracted 1% of all motorhome owners, so how many of those are club members? very few I would think.
The only ones pushing for this under the guise of it's good for members are perhaps the ones who just want cheaper places to stay at our and the tax payer's expense which translates to it's good for me.
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Without the petition, or any lobbying, there has been considerable movement in the provision of overnight parking for M/h's in this country.
Just take Torridge, exmouth, north Norfolk, Canterbury etc as examples where LA's have, without any lobbying other than from local business, gone forwards with the provision of Ares in their existing car parks.
We also have Britstops, pub stopovers, etc. As one who spends about 50% of my camping off grid and off regular camp sites I have never had a problem finding somewhere to overnight so I am not quite sure of the relevance of the petition.
Relevance or otherwise, the CAMC is a provider of camp site facilities not Aires and is completely, imo, the wrong target for this petition.
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Many European campsites have now in recognition of changing markets given over part of their sites to providing an adjoining motorhome Aire, with basic water and drainage facility and parking on a turn up and stay basis...not really all that complicated, and they seem to be working very well.
It strikes me that there are no sites that I am aware of in UK providing aires. There could be several reasons why they appear in other parts of Europe and not over here.
Could be that UK sites do not see it to be profitable using land and resources to provide for a niche market.
Could be that they are not seeing a loss of trade to existing aires.
Could be planning constraints.
Any thoughts?
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How about we are a relatively small country with a large population whereas a lot of European countries are larger or have significantly smaller populations. The exception is the Netherlands and I have no idea if they and equivalent to an Aire.
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Could be that UK sites do not see it to be profitable using land and resources to provide for a niche market
With the growing market of motorhome owners is it really still a niche market? I very much doubt it. If the facilities are made available I have no doubt they will be used. Anyone know the take up of Britstops or the Motorhome Club's Safenights?
peedee
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the current number of MH is estimated at 250,000 while the same estimate for caravans is 550,000. Last year there were almost 24000 new caravans while just only 14000 new MH.
However MH went up by 17% over the previous year while caravans only went up by 9%.
So still a niche market for both but more so for MH?
PS. At the end of March 2018 there were 37.9 million cars in the UK. so MH make up around 0.6%
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The "growing market" in Motorhome owners is a bit of a red herring surely? It's the number of those MH owners requiring this sort of provision which is more relevant and judging by the small numbers bothering to sign the petition and even the reaction of most MHers on here, the demand is simply not there in sufficient numbers. So in that sense it's fair to call it a niche market.
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I personally would think that if you own a bit of land within walking distance of somewhere nice or something interesting you can find something more profitable to do with it than let a handful of M/H's park on it, given that the going rate for Aires seems to be around £8 to £10....? (correct me if I'm wrong, it's not something we are likely to ever use), so the returns are not likely to attract the private sector......
However, for an LA already owning a P & R or inner city/ in-town car park and wanting a bit of extra revenue by letting some M/H's stay the night it possibly makes sense....? I can't think of anything worse myself, but each to their own....
Given the wealth of these M/H owners and their alleged spending power in these towns, I don't know why they don't just stay on a nice site on the periphery and get a taxi (or a Limo...) into town for the day....
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big +1 there, I guess the more you have the less you want to spend?
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Norwich P&R T&C’s
https://www.norwichparkandride.co.uk/bottom-navigation/parking-terms-conditions/
Seems MH under 7.5 tons are allowed on the 3 Norwich sites but not for overnight stays.
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Vehicles exceeding 7.5 tonnes, trailers and touring caravans are not permitted to park with in the site
I'm being discriminated against ! why is the club not lobbying for my interests? Where's my petition? I demand free/lower stays as well paid for by everyone else!!
I suppose I should add that my statement above is meant in jest?
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250,000 registered motor homes is 45 percent of touring vans, hardly a niche.. I see from Britstops website they added 200 more stops this year. Nearly a 30 percent increase over 2017 offering. Some obviously see it worthwhile to join the system.
peedee
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Maybe Mark Bevan would have been better urging Britstops to do even more then? If they already have the knowledge/skills/ willingness to provide this sort of provision it would surely have been easier to persuade them than an organisation which, as others have said, is primarily focused on providing "traditional" sites.
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We are on a lovely CL tonight, about 2 miles from a very nice market town, a fairly easy walk through NT woodlands along River Swale. Interestingly, we passed a small car park that had half a dozen MHs and campers all parked up, 400 metres from town centre. They all seemed happy enough, no doubt cheap. But no views, no space between units, and it was dark and shady. Not our choice.
Another aspect of town/ city based Aire type sites for us would be the possibility of vandalism and disruptive behaviour. Not having stayed on an Aire abroad, I have no experience of them on Continent, but let's face it, even some of the nicest towns and villages on this island have a problem with undesirables, those who don't like to see expensive vehicles and outfits, or carry out unsocial behaviour in the twilight hours. Not sure how secure or comfortable I would feel at times nowadays.
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Britstops is based on France Passion. That scheme is not like the network of Aires. Both sit happily side by side in France but have little in common. As Britstops is run by one couple, I doubt that they have the time to spare from running their own organisation to lobby for an entirely different scheme.
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45% of something small is still something small. It's a niche considering the total number of road vehicles who use and park in Britain's roads
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And where is that post? I've been through all your posts and I can find no mention of your's giving a list of the things done by the club solely for the benefit of caravanners
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+1
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Sorry Michael that should have read caravan & M/H owners, or better still "members of both the CC and the C&CC". However the petition is still divisive IMO.
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No idea what the difference is but if the "couple" who run Britstops managed to open 200 new stops this year, just think what could be achieved if even a small percentage of the folk who signed that petition became a bit more proactive and offered some practical support!
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250,000 registered motor homes is 45 percent of touring vans
Surely your %age is wrong, peedee, as there are over double the number of caravans to M/Hs. The actual figure should be about 30%. (250,000 while the same estimate for caravans is 550,000). Still substantial but a fair bit lower than you were trying to make out.
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