The big winter shut down
Comments
-
On our list HD, I bet it is magical in Winter. The NY Moors are our Winter playground, sometimes in MH, sometimes in Van and Jeep! Roaring log fires in pubs, brilliant frosty walks with dogs, crashing seas on the coast. Robin Hoods Bay and Scarborough are nice at Christmas.
1 -
if the club really hasnt got its head around how (a large proportion of) MHers use their vans and what they need, then the name change really has amounted to (very expensive) lip service.
Well I see a relatively high number of motorcaravans on some sites. Cannot say that that many seem to go off site with their outfits unless in a toad. I do see many that move every 3 days rather than my 5 days however.
1 -
my point exactly, Alan....more stops, but shorter stops, requiring less in the way of facilities on each site...
just a place to park, fill/empty etc....
the reference to the 'changing demographic' is that, over time (according to most sales figures and the CC own commitment....) more members will move towards this type of requirment.
other than our two long trips each year, i dont think we are ever 'settled' on a site.....hence no awnings or other 'permanent' type pitching kit...just chairs/table...
1 -
Think I will stick to a hotel in the cold winter months,and if any of you hardy campers need electricity then you should not be going because you might not have it due to bad weather,this is aimed at the members who do not bother to carry gas anymore.
0 -
M, its not your understanding of a particular word thats in question, merely your view/comment of what posters (me, in this case) should or should not post.
if i want to end my post with a 'sarcastic comment' or whatever, thats up to me and rules of the forum.....which i happily adhere to.
'sarcastic' comments about CC are a fairly regular occurence and are not my exclusive domain....
my point is that we (I, the forum) don't need folk other than the CT team to moderate.
once you/anyone starts telling folk (directly or obliquely) that 'they cant post that' you will inevitibly take the thread away from the discussion and kick off a separate 'spat' about 'rules', which is what you have done.
i explained to you that Alan and I felt no animosity in what we had discussed and requested that you 'leave it (your intervention) at that'....
is that possible now you understand the issue?
thanks (no animosity or sarcasm in this post whatsoever)
0 -
You've convinced me TTDA
Sounds wonderful have been looking for somewhere for a fab winter break that ticks all the boxes! 0 -
my point exactly, Alan....more stops, but shorter stops, requiring less in the way of facilities on each site...
just a place to park, fill/empty etc...
Not exactly the point I was making.
Most the motorhomers that I see stay on site for several days. The fact that many move every 3 days rather than every 5 as I do does not alter the fact that they use the site very much in the same way. Many have a towed car that they use. Many use buses. Those that use buses tend to be the ones that stay a few days. Very few seem to use CC sites 'as a place to park, fill/empty etc'. Indeed why would they if they were out and about in their motorhome all day and requiring less in the way of facilities?
The concept of many motorhomers being different than caravanners is not evidenced on CC sites. A relatively small number seem to take their motorhome off site.
1 -
Can't think of any member who does not carry gas. On previous caravan where nose weight was more of an issue I carried a single 3.9kg bottle and a lightweight awning in the caravan for most of the year. On our December break however I carried two bottles just in case.
1 -
Im starting to get a bit worried as to how closely we are all being watched when on site....
how long i stay, whether i use the facilities, do i catch the bus, have i moved the van?.....
0 -
I think the concept of Aires on existing closed winter sites needs to be examined a little more closely. As several folk have raised the issue, but I don't think have given much thought to the financing and execution. In an ideal world 10 new pitches and MH service point would be constructed outside the existing site, with its own automated barriers / check in system. This would enable the existing site to remain securely lock up. It would also make more financial sense as it would mean 10 extra pitches that could earn revenue all year and thus more rapidly pay off the investment. However, how many sites do we know with the spare land available.
The other alternative is to in some way fence off 10 existing pitches near the entrance and probably construct another MHSP, as to use the existing one is likely to involve leaving too much of the site open. The existing barriers would have to be converted to more sophisticated check type ones. As the pitches are not additional, the investment would have to be paid off by the limited site fees brought in during the lower cost winter season. I have no idea of the costs involved, clearly it would depend on many factors including if you were going to provide metered electricity, or make them Non EHU.
Both of the above of course depend on if planning permissions could be obtained. Far from guaranteed.
Just a few thoughts
1 -
Can pass on some site details. Other than Xmas/New Year, you won't need to book, so if weather does become an issue, you can amend plans accordingly! High likelihood of snow on Moors or in Dales, but with a good 4x4, you can still get around. Pickering/Helmsley area is good, castles, Abbeys, museums etc.... nice pubs and good eateries of all kinds. Pickering is our Winter bolt hole! You get York and Castle Howard thrown in as well!
0 -
Steve, what you have described is fairly accurate (of those we have used) and are what has evolved over time in France and elsewhere.
however, they have many years development time ahead of the UK (CC) and more room in which to make it happen.
here, as you say, things are different, so i think your option 1 wont happen...
however, theres no reason why a modification of option 2 couldnt work.
most of the site could remain physically open with a set number of 'pitches' (capacity) available...this might be ten, twenty even....
however, just like a car park, you could park anywhere, with the barrier only allowing so many 'spaces' to be filled, but no bollards would be active and anyone requiring a meter would need to know where they are.
this would alleviate the need for areas of the 'pitching area' to be fenced off....customers could pitch anywhere....but depending on which (if any) services were open (the current MHSP could remain as the water/waste point) the 'best' pitch doesnt come into it.
so, other than areas of the site which i would hope are already totally secure, there would be no need to alter entry/exit other than to move to a fee receiving intelligent barrier system.
other than any spacing differences, this is exactly how unmanned carparks work and how a large number of aires operate.....
im not certain how the in/out movements of vans are monitored (pass out ticket/ANPR?) but its obviously done 'elsewhere' so not difficult to manage.
making a 'number' of pitches metered would allow EHU to be taken or not, this would add versatility to each site thus equipped throughout the year.
a trial of a couple/few sites would test the concept, of all year pitching and the level of services required and follow through on the take up (or not) of metered EHU at different times of the year.
the investment required to kick off something like this cant be that high, and it doesnt affect the workings of non participating sites, IE normal service is present on all other sites exactly as it was before, just that a few sites that would have been closed would be open with a limited capacity, using limited services, making use of simple modern technology to run the site unmanned.
any 'site things' that need doing (bins etc) can be done on rotation, any other 'emergency' requirements satisfied by an on call 'warden' (or similar) who rides out to the rescue....though we are likely to be talking more technical assistance rather than physical, so a technical help number.
i realise something like this is a massive change for CC, but it is certainly doable, at a reasonable cost without wholesale changes to participating sites.
it would be interesting to hear a CC reaction.
like you, just some thoughts
0 -
http://www.saint-martin-de-re.fr/fr/information/73122/aire-camping-car
we dont need to change our sites, per se, merely be able to offer additional low cost, winter pitches by using the MHSP on site (or even think about an extra Euro-Relais type when upgrading, and add intelligent entry/exit/billing.
no criticism of sites, just exploring a way to make more of what we already have.
0 -
Well, it's been an entertaining and informative tete-a-tete, BB, and I know I shouldn't really ask, but just to be clear -
you're telling me I shouldn't tell folk what they should or shouldn't write ( because that's moderating!) whilst at the same time telling me what I should or shouldn't write?
Gosh, awfully confusing this forum business isn't it?!!
0 -
Confusing?, I was thinking more along the lines of entertaining
. Lexical semantics-dontcha just love em
4 -
more stops, but shorter stops, requiring less in the way of facilities on each site...
just a place to park, fill/empty etc.
I thought that this was a Caravan and Motorhome Club, and that it it hadn't yet changed to a sole Motorhome Club as you seem to be implying.
1 -
nellie, that's not what i was implying at all...
if you read all of my posts i was advocating all members using a more limited facility site, where water and waste points (at the MHSP so as to only have one area to maintain) would be open (for all) and pitches (limited number with metered ehu) were also available to all (if they want to take it up).
i also suggested this could be done without too much change to participating sites, making use of credit/membership card entry/exit.
none of the above would affect the clubs current open all year sites, merely an attempt to extend the opening period of 'some' sites that would otherwise be closed, by making use of technology to reduce (staff) costs.
so, lower costs and lower prices, longer openings for those that wish to use them....all in addition to the current offering.
if thats being 'biased'......
however, when on site, i expect you park, fill and empty......dont you?
0 -
From what I see of the majority of MH users on CC sites many do tend to move every few days. As often those without toads seem to leave the motorhome on site frequently I wondered if that was limitations with public transport that prompted them to move more frequently. It was noticeable, for example, at the Pandy site. I did wonder if it was a trip to Abergavenny, a trip to Hereford and then move on?
As for the 10 pitch idea on unmanned sites for caravanners and motorhome users; As these sites appear to have limited appeal I do not think that I would like my caravan to be one of possibly two or three left vacant on such a location. Seems an open invitation to theft.
0 -
That is simply not correct. There are many thousands of Danish, German, Dutch, Belgian, Swiss people winter caravanning in Spain and Portugal every year.
Your reference to "refugee camps" is a bit nasty too.
We have enjoyed visiting many different areas of the Spain/Portugal coast in winter over the years. It is less crowded and the sunny climate is delightful.
2 -
i presume so.....why wouldnt this be on topic....
its always good to make more use of underused facilities....and LNAs would be a good place to start....possibly combining them into a 'short stop' facility.....just add a bourne and pay station......
Alan, what is it about a club site that makes you think your caravan is any safer there with your van locked (with all your security devices) and behind a secure barrier than if it were on one of these modified sites locked (with all your security devices) and behind a secure barrier?
if someone wants to get to your van and steal contents or the van itself, it will be your security devices and the barrier system that prevents it (or not) not the 'presence' of any cc staff who could well be on duty elsewhere.
we seem to have gravitated into a thread where those who have little interest in a fewer operational pitched, cheaper, no frills, hs, barrier operated site seem to be against it (despite the fact that it wouldn't impact them) with those who want more pitches open in winter (but done cost effectively and without impact to how the affected site would be used during 'normal opening season') exploring the positives...
glasses and their respective water contents....?
still, nowt wrong with a bit of debate....
would be nice to see a bit of club input....or from the OP.
0 -
Alan, what is it about a club site that makes you think your caravan is any safer there with your van locked (with all your security devices) and behind a secure barrier than if it were on one of these modified sites locked (with all your security devices) and behind a secure barrier?
On a CC site open in winter there are usually a fair number of caravans, wardens and folk going about their business.
On an unmanned facility with a couple of caravans parked and nobody around it would be more open to breaking in and the mither that causes. Remember the closed in winter sites are closed either due to planning or because they are in areas less popular at that time of year.
1 -
but 'folk going about their business' wont bat an eyelid to a bloke with a car hooking up a caravan.......his or yours....
cars, vans etc get 'nicked' in broad daylight on the street, in busy car parks etc, etc......
perhaps lack of security (of the unit/caravan) is another reason why more are moving towards self contained transport/accommodation (MHs) that can be left safely anywhere a car can be...
remember, its the club that have trumpeted this recognition of the change in its customer base and the OP (who is one of the newly recognised customers) who is lamenting the lack of winter, short stop parking.
perhaps, without giving NTH ammunition to beat me with re 'the caravan club', the sort of short stop sites that work elsewhere (and have been discussed here) aren't really suited to caravans, hence the many objections that have come from towers.....
has there been a post from a MHer in this thread that has suggested this is a bad idea?
it seems that many suggestion made here 'dont work' with a caravan (for whatever reason) which is perhaps why the aires system in europe is restricted to MHs?
i thought making more use of a few pitches in winter, without adding cost, seemed a good idea, but perhaps caravanners want the whole site open or nothing at all.....and here is a fundamental difference in requirements.
0 -
As a caravanner I'd be happy with a reduced number of pitches operating all year as long as the club could deliver them economically
I've often said that we'd make good use of Aire type pitches, it matches our style of touring quite well.
2 -
There are numerous motor caravans on here and I drought that you could count on one hand how many have "gone out for the day" ,even camper vans have done the same as any "tugger" would do except with the lack of "mobilty"that mostly comes with having a seperate "tug" so is it ever going to be finacialy viable for any organisation,to spend what is if looked at with the eyes of accountants significant outlays to modify sites for the tiny minority of out of season users, as can be seen by the amount of stored motor c/vans in where we,store our c/van from Sept to April
0 -
Over the last two years of taking our own small MH to sites in Winter, we have seen a significant increase in smaller MHs doing what we do, staying a few nights at sites, going out in MH during day (no other vehicle or public transport required), and then coming back to Site each evening. Then moving on somewhere else and doing the same. It's linear touring, as opposed to hobbit touring (not an insult, refers to "there and back again") You do get caravans doing similar as well, Nellie being a good example. The MHs we see in Winter have tended to be on the smaller size, great for just this purpose, hopping around, relatively easy to park.
I can only speak for ourselves, but the only time we use Club Sites tends to be in Winter, when prices are very cheap, and the sites are empty. Last December, we had the lower area of Bolton Abbey to ourselves for four nights, and only half a dozen others up on top area. I prefer this set up to squashing tourers together in an Aire type set up, even if it is cheaper. We value peace and quiet and privacy. If I can see or hear someone else's TV in a tourer, then I want to be further away. I think it was around £18 per night last year, that was with all the facilities open, for the two of us and dogs. Well worth the gorgeous location, fantastic walks and access to rest of Dales.
0 -
but 'folk going about their business' wont bat an eyelid to a bloke with a car hooking up a caravan.......his or yours....
Burning off the Alko,might attract some attention. However the more likely scenario is breaking in (5 second job), nicking what is easy to shift and going off.
If somebody wished to steal a caravan an unmanned site with probably just a couple of empty units would be easy target.
remember, its the club that have trumpeted this recognition of the change in its customer base and the OP (who is one of the newly recognised customers) who is lamenting the lack of winter, short stop parking.
Wheras I thought that the club was acknowledging the growth of motorhomes over the years. There is not a lack of sites overall in Winter. There is a lack of cheap aires type facilities for those that want such it could be argued. As I have said before if these were thought to be a good earner I am surprised that no enterprising person has provided.
As I have said earlier it seems to me that few MH users take the MH off site and maybe that is because those that want a cheap night halt go elsewhere.
1 -
...but, as stated above (not by me) many do their touring differently to others, doing their visiting (or whatever) along the way.
keeping tabs on who leaves the site in their MH is no measure of weather they want a winter pitch or not.
the real measure is whether the pitches are taken, and there are plenty suggesting more, cheap, winter pitches would be used.
i realise it's tricky for some to understand the get up and go (linear) touring as already described but it's a style enjoyed by many, and likely to increase with the larger numbers of MHs, though not exclusively their preserve.
BTW, Somerset 92 for 3 at lunch
1
