Increase size of CLs?
Comments
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It's a good thought M but I honestly think if we try to change the existing law the most likely outcome is the whole exemption certificate scheme would be scrapped.
Being free from needing planning permission for a camp site particularly in some of the more sensitive areas such as national parks is such a major concession we mustn't put it at risk.
Not everyone likes caravans and tents in these sensitive areas and the argument that could easily be put forward might be "why should a CL be exempt from planning permission when everybody else is". It's a very powerful argument that I wouldn't like to argue against.
Let's keep off the radar for as long as possible.
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Good post, Fysh.
The more complicated we make things, the more it invites regulation. I suspect the original logic of exemption for 5 vans was that very small sites caused minimum disruption to others so, from the point of view of bureaucracy, it was simpler to allow the
exemption arrangements. Make them bigger and that could very well be lost.0 -
That sums it up very well TW.
My local planning dept is limiting rallies in the area and looking at the number of pitches that can be used by caravans. They don't want caravans spoiling the nice views when the Film and TV production companies come to make all the programs and films now
made in the area.I don't know if they have even heard of CL's and I would like to keep it that way.
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Not everyone likes caravans and tents in these sensitive areas and the argument that could easily be put forward might be "why should a CL be exempt from planning permission when everybody else is". It's a very powerful argument that I wouldn't
like to argue against.Let's keep off the radar for as long as possible.
Write your comments here...OK problem solved we will just make them larger for Motorhomes, I am sure BB would agree to this
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whoooooooooosh, how did i get in on this, lol
seriously, we love our CLs, along with other no frills sites.
i like and respect the 5 van ethos, its great only having 4 vans for company. we dont generally have an access problem on the small sites
we also like some larger sites, with loads of facilities....but in the right place and at the right time....for us....out of season.
no, keep the CL sites as they are, and dont keep asking owners to ramp up the facs, as this will lead them to wanting to get their investment back.....with higher prices or more vans.
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CLs are closing because of the inexorable increase in the number of motorhomes in proportion to caravans.
By and large CLs are in the wrong places for motorhomes, have grass rather than hard standing, and have no dumping facilities which Motorhomers want. As the ratio of motorhomes to caravans continue to increase then CLs will continue to close.
Look overseas where the process of small campsite closure is proceeding even faster. We are just back once again from mainland Europe and the rate of change there as motorhomes take over is an eye opener. Small campsites are dead in the water.
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Possibly I am an atypical user but I am sure I used CL's more in the various Motorhomes than when using caravans.
We tended to tour or be out during the day and just find a CL when it was time to park up for the night.
Do take your point about Aires etc near towns overseas though.
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Those that are old enough and remember the ‘Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960.’ will point out that the purpose of the act is contained in the three words ‘Control of Development ‘ and that the original proposals were, as I pointed out in a much earlier post, very much more draconian. The 5 Van exemptions clauses were a long fort & hard won concession. Now if you take into account that this was all some 56 years ago, when anti this or that brigades hardly existed (nuclear disarmament excepted): I think it is a forgone conclusion that no such exemptions would be granted nowadays. Best just keep a low profile and enjoy what we have, rarther than find that we lose it by our own efforts. Beware as there may be more out there that would gladly seize upon the opportunity to take away your rights than those willing to grant you more.
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conversely, some CLs are much closer to towns because you couldnt get planning for anything larger thats close to town.
weve used close CLs at, for example, Lyme Regis, 15 mins stroll to the town/seafront, or Ludlow.
similarly, the THS sites, which dont require a full planning consent, can be right in the middle of towns, by using sports grounds in the off season....
yes, in winter time, when its wet, we would be a bit more choosy about the grass/HS situation and this may well reduce footfall for a CL, from MHs anyway.
there are certainly a number of reasons why things might be going against a CL....
youve named a couple, add in the rise in prices linked to the addition of more (unnecessary?) facilities and theres certainly part of the answer
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there are certainly a number of reasons why things might be going against a CL....
youve named a couple, add in the rise in prices linked to the addition of more (unnecessary?) facilities and theres certainly part of the answer
Both comments I heard at a THS in Dorset in June and again at a THS in Sunderland a few days ago.
I do not recall such criticism of CL'S ever before.
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i guess the type of customer you and i would meet on a THS would be one who wasnt much interested in toilets, showers etc on site....its a 'van thing' on a THS
so, if they start comparing prices on a CL (at £12-£15 or even more) to a typical THS price of £8-£9 then they are going to seem expensive....
add in the showers/loo thing and those CL prices start to become £15-£20 a night....for a pitch in a field
far too much for those used to a pitch in a field at half that rate
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Yes thats a perfectly reasonable assesment BB
I was struck by the number who said they had dropped the CC because they were no longer interested in CL's. It used to be most were in both clubs but perhaps that is changing as full club sites are now so much and don't really appeal anyway.
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Maybe its in the evolution of carvanning/motorhoming. When first setting out you are unsure of anything so the comfort of a club or commercial site lures you in. As you become more accustomed and more knowledgable you maybe try a CL, then you hear about
THS and give them a try and you then find out what you do and dont like and make your choice.0 -
very true, Michael. we like most flavours of site, just the overcrowded term time stuff that we find hard
...hence were generally not around.so, try a few different flavours, be brave, leave that club site behind, try a CL....
perhaps then leave the ehu cable behind and 'slum it' on a THS, you never know, you might like it....
its a bit like learning to swim, start at the shallow end where your feet can touch the bottom, and gradually move up the pool as you get stronger and more confident...
CLs are great, perhaps an aquired taste, but am happy to keep most as they are....
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We use CL's, Club Sites and will be trying Sandy Balls and maybe other commercial sites in the next couple of weeks. Likewise we mix and match and since getting the MH dont worry too much about EHU (still prefer a site toilet though) and generally go out
of the main season apart fom bank holidays etc.0 -
I am firmly in the just leave things alone as they are camp regarding CLs. If a CL isn't proving viable because of too much invested in it then the provider either hasn't got their sums right, is expecting too quick a return on investment or it just isn't
perhaps in the right location, and unlikely to get the footfall. I know of a few that have done well as CLs, taken the plunge and upped the pitches legally and are now making a very nice return on a small private site, keeping the overall ambience and ethos
of a CL. Likewise we have come across a couple of recently opened CLs, lots of investment put in, but frankly they will struggle because the location has issues, or they are already too expensive compared with others close by offering similar services.0 -
Another thing for CL owners could do to increase revenue/useage is to upload some pictures to the CC site and also have their own web site. Does not have to be overly complicated site but to show some pictures of the site, any other interesting things such
as transport links, sights to visit, local pubs/restaurants etc plus up to date prices would attract more custom.0 -
My wife and I never use anything other than CLs for our holidays and have stayed on some brilliant sites over the last 6 years. We certainly would not wish to see the number of units increase, resulting in more noise and less space, especially on sites of 1/2acre of which there are many, but we would ask the Club to tell us why they turn a blind eye to CLs that constantly abuse the rules and exceed the permitted number of units. The Club made the rules NOW ENFORCE THEM.
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The Club did not make the rules - that's legislation.
Do you report CLs abusing the rules to CC?
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TW is quite right, the rules were set by an Act of Parliament.
I don’t know if the club turns a blind eye to CL's regularly allowing more than 5. I doubt it personally because the club is very aware that the exemption scheme is not set in stone. If it was withdrawn the Club would be in trouble with members leaving en mass.
Its therfore really important that the club is informed about regular transgressions.
I would speak to the CL owner first just in case there is a genuine reason.
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I knew that CS sites could have some tents in addition to caravans. I no longer use CLs but enjoyed the privelige of using them in the past.
From the C&CC website:
Overview
This is a Certificated Site (CS). These select sites are small, privately run campsites that operates under the Club’s jurisdiction and can only accommodate up to 5 caravans or motorhomes and up to 10 trailer tents, unless express permission
has been given by the Club to accommodate more. They range from secluded Hideaways to fully facilitated family friendly sites, and are often found in locations where larger commercial sites are prohibited so you could be camping close to a beach or in the
National Park, for example.0
