Increase size of CLs?
Comments
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There are hundreds of small private sites catering for the EHU and HS requirement, many of them ex CL. We know, we have used four in this last year. Why don't people who are saying extend the 5 van rule use these? We found some lovely places with 10, 15,
20, 30 pitches (so not big commercial site), but we also value the 5 pitch only sites as well. It is really nice to have these tiny, unspoilt little gems....As you say a lot were cls,and as I understand it they found it much easier to "convert" to a bigger site after they had got their cl certificate than them trying to get a site licence from the local planning authority for a site in the first place
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,where will it end?
It will end with fewer and fewer CLs.
With more and more "small " commecial sites maybe, unless you lobby your MP to get the "act" changed
...but getting the act changed will only make for bigger CLs. isnt one of the primary attractions that you will only have a maximum of four neighbouring vans?
also, folk keep on buying bigger and bigger vans with more and more palatial loo/washrooms and then insist that small sites should have a loo and washroom
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which inevitibly drive the cost/price levels upwards...0 -
You cannot have both either small commecial sites "converted" from CLs to give a return on the investment in the facilities that more and more expect, or have the CL "act"changed so they can "upgrade"and get a return on the "upgrade",look at the "winter cheapies" who go to "holiday camps"instead of useing CLs,and if some think the clubs do not install "proper" m/van emptying points where do CL owners stand? as even according some "morris leisures"brand new sites have not got it right
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Spriddle should chech the facts before writing about things he knows very little about what he is writing.
No money is paid by the gouvernment to any caravan site.
Money is paid to keep the price of food down and make sure there is a good supply
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AMOBUTS, youre comparing chalk and chicken
larger commercial sites have no excuse for not getting it right when it comes to things like loos, showers and MHSP's...
they have to cater for a larger turnover and the 'precise pitching' that takes place, precludes folk wandering about with wastemasters to empty into the hedge...
on a CL its different, less formal, less territorial....
no-one would expect a fully functioning MHSP on a typical CL would they?
if we've gone beyond EHU, then loos, then showers and now MHSPs on a CL then theyre not like the ones I've been on...
surely, CL owners want to increase footfall (to a degree) but similarly, dont they want to control costs?
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Spriddle should chech the facts before writing about things he knows very little about what he is writing.
No money is paid by the gouvernment to any caravan site.
Money is paid to keep the price of food down and make sure there is a good supply
...Im sure you're right....
...may i ask, are you married to 'health'
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but my guess ( and it may be entirely wrong) is that it's the very basic "space in a field" type sites that are more likely to be closing.
Have just checked through the current site directory, and as of the July edition of the club's magazine, the number of Cl with EHU that have closed since Jan 2015 is over double the number of ones without EHU....111 to 53. I would suspect many of them
have gone on to be commercial sites. Perhaps being a CL for a while is an easy way in to getting a commercial licence. Wonder why HO no longer publish the reasons for closure!! Perhaps they are trying to protect other CL owners by not showing which sites,
perhaps favourites for some people, have not gone commercial.0 -
you only have to witness the success of the CCC THS program (where you get a pitch, water and waste points, usuually in a field.....at around £8 a night..) to see that the demand is still there.....
BB do you know for a fact that these rally type of events are a success? There was a West Wales Rally on a CS field near us last weekend and there could not have been more than 6 vans on it. I certainly not call that a success!!
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Great information Nellie. We have stayed on some quite recently set up sites these last couple of years, and some of the owners have made it plain they are looking to extend beyond CL. I think they are looking at the LA approach and the CL/CS approach and
seeing what hurdles have to be gone through, get a taste for running a small site, and then looking to expand. Not every new CL, by any means of course, but quite a few I would guess. Touring industry is booming on this tiny island, and there are people hoping
to make a go of a site, large or small. I know a lot of the established CLs, decades old are also investing in upgrades, particularly if a new CL opens in area, or younger family takes over business. I wish we could still see reasons for closures, always interesting.0 -
CLs in fields were designed for caravan owners who wanted truly rural locations - they had cars and could drive out and about. Motor home owners tell me they want hard standings and locations more immediately accessible to shopping facilities or to public
transport. And so the switch to motor homes is hitting rural CLs.It's even more acute in France where an amazing network of town centre and village centre Aires has grown up - providing exactly what motor home owners want - and so small rural campsites there too are struggling and closing. It's the switch to motor home
ownership which is the cause of the decline of simple rural CL sites here in UK as well as tradional small sites over there.I think you've made a valid point there ET.....
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but my guess ( and it may be entirely wrong) is that it's the very basic "space in a field" type sites that are more likely to be closing.
Have just checked through the current site directory, and as of the July edition of the club's magazine, the number of Cl with EHU that have closed since Jan 2015 is over double the number of ones without EHU....111 to 53. I would suspect many of them
have gone on to be commercial sites. Perhaps being a CL for a while is an easy way in to getting a commercial licence. Wonder why HO no longer publish the reasons for closure!! Perhaps they are trying to protect other CL owners by not showing which sites,
perhaps favourites for some people, have not gone commercial....Looks as if the figures may prove what is suspected is how things ,as some of us suspect,that a cl/cs is an easier way to getting planning permission to get a site up and running
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Stuh, bit confused about your CL. It isn't showing EHU available on the CL search? Just thought I would mention, perhaps need to contact Club to amend your entry? If someone puts in EHU required, then it will not bring yours up and you will be losing potential
customers and income, not good after spending on having EHU installed.
Seem you might have been looking at the wrong CL, tda. Both the SD & the CC web site show Mount Pleasant Ecological Park CL, which I think is Stuh's site, as having EHU. Or perhaps I've got the wrong site?
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I think you might have Nellie. It's Mount Pleasant Farm, Skinners Bottom, Redruth, I believe.
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Sorry one and all.
I certainly got the wrong site. Seems there are 2 sites with a very similar name - Mount Pleasant
- at Redruth. Stuh's web site - http://www.caravan-club-cornwall.co.uk/ - does show the site as having EHU.0 -
As for hoping that an amended bill would pass through Parliament to increase the number of vans to some figure over the present 5 on CL/CS type sites.
You may find it turns out, as would be written of uncharted waters on ancient maps ‘Here be Dragon’
It is just as likely that ‘all sites’ would be required to obtain a ‘Local Authority Licence’ even for just one van and that could include your van kept on your driveway. If I am not mistaken these were the original proposals in the bill that was amended,
after a great deal of lobbing, to create the 5 van exemption status.0 -
JVB66- It also encourages the Cl to exceed the vans and then they use the fact that it has already had 8/10 vans in their application to go commercial and more pitches. Its so low keyed that even in the Nat Park the application to increase does not even
go before the committee but is delegated to the officers with an nodded through unless the site is very small or there are issues with highway access.0 -
As Supertractorman made the statement and already has a successful CL, Stu, I guess he has a fair idea of what's involved.
I also have a succesful CL, I know whats involved and despite all the electrical work being done by a friend the materials costs alone (event at trade price) was significant given the return - I dont do it to make money but implying the CL owners are exadgerating
the costs is quite frankly a bit offensive!The cost of installing these facilities will vary hugely depending on how big the CL is, where the nearest services are located and if the connection is suitable under current regulations.... enough said about it now anyway.
I don't see anything offensive, Stu. Most farmers have equipment, such as tractors and diggers, and materials, such as hard core, already to hand and may not have had to incur the expense that you have if you don't have these items. STM will have been speaking
from his own experience as you spoke from yours.Write your comments here...
Seems I opened a can of worms, but I was only trying to say if you want to be creative it need not cost too much. I have proper armoured cable, 2 Caravan approved mounting posts with all breakers and coupled to our house electrics to take benefit from my
solar panels. My Hard standings use lumps of concrete from the runways of an old airfield covered with clean 20 ml stone. The digger I bought for £1800 was sold for £2000 !!. In making these statements I would like to encourage more folks to consider having
their own CL to give me more to visit while numbers are getting less and it is not as hard or as expensive to do.On a final point the main question I get on the phone is do you have Hard Standings, Electrics and do you take dogs. With 70% + repeat business I don't want more pitches, it is for us a retired persons hobby, but always wanting to increase business each
year.David www.perthshirecl.co.uk
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you only have to witness the success of the CCC THS program (where you get a pitch, water and waste points, usuually in a field.....at around £8 a night..) to see that the demand is still there.....
BB do you know for a fact that these rally type of events are a success? There was a West Wales Rally on a CS field near us last weekend and there could not have been more than 6 vans on it. I certainly not call that a success!!
ive been on a dozen or so over the past three years and can only speak as i find.....
there are others on CT who use them, they might have a view..
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Hardstandings will destroy the whole concept of CL's
TF
We have been to some lovely CLs with hardstandings. Surely the 'concept' of CLs is just to allow farms etc to have a little site as a sideline which allows caravanners more choice of location and site type. We only use CLs that have toilets and a shower
- so they would be 'wrong' too? If your concept of CL's is that they cannot evolve then no electric, just elsan hole and tap, would have to be the way they all are.0 -
i guess a lot it is to do with how well a site drains. weve been to some places with grass and, despite plenty of rain, the pitches are still firm...
location and type of substrata makes a large difference...
for us, grass nice as long as the drainage is good enough to leave a reasonably firm area to park on....
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I guess that my attitude to hardstandings has been coloured by the sheer difficulty of getting awning pegs through club site "all weather" surfaces without bending like a banana. - and that includes so called Rock Pegs.
Another reason why I stopped using CC sites. It had become almost impossible to find sites with sufficient grass pitches.
This is clearly another difference between the traditional touring caravan user and the MH owner. As the former I am happy with a sloping or un even pitch. Whatever- as long as its Grass! My 4x4 copes with all of it and wide tyres don't slip so the surface
is not spoilt.TF
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Hardstandings will destroy the whole concept of CL's
TF
That statement is complete twaddle, TF. Sorry, but it is. How on earth can a bit of hardcore ruin the concept of CLs?
Many CLs already have HS and they don't necessarily have to be the pristine manicured variety as used by CC. HS encourage me to use CLs whereas grass and mud send me elsewhere.
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TW. Maybe my comment was a bit extreme, but I think I clarified it a little in my later posts.
I just want to preserve the informal nature of CL's but do accept that MH owners especially will be looking for something else. It takes all types etc etc.
TF
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I think we posted at the same time, TF.
Yes, there is room for all and we all have differing requirements but the 'concept' of CLs is actually nothing do do with the type of ground but with the exemption from regulations allowing 5 vans. HS or grass cannot change that. What you mean is that grass
is your ideal CL.0 -
I too look for hardstandings if at all possible but these tend to be on CLs where ground conditions mean that grass is easily damaged or ones that offer year round opening. There is a lot of choice out there but the beauty of a CL is that it's what the owner
wants it to be and not restricted to a set formula.I've enjoyed being on spacious informal CLs (although less keen on the grass) and I've enjoyed being on smaller sites with defined hardstanding pitches. Most owners seem very flexible and if you want to pitch so your awning goes on grass (or vice versa in
our case) they will help you0 -
As I said previously, I think the requirement for more HS pitches is just the way the hobby is moving, whether you use a caravan or a MH. We have both, and use both. Our preference is for grass with both, and we have made provision via some off road waffles
to enable us to go where other larger MH users would hardly dare, but even then we are sensible and firstly resist destroying someone's nice grass pitches ands secondly don't want to get stuck. We have learned which CLs we use have a good draining subsurface,
or have plastic mesh with grass growing through, or might have a mix of grass and HS pitches, so we can continue to tour throughout the Winter months.So, while enjoying grass more, we are grateful for the CLs with HS as well, so we can tour year round. It is just a natural evolvement to us. The worst pitches for us actually, are the horrible Club Site HS, where they use quite large steel slag type aggregate.
Nasty to walk on, trails into van ,and downright nasty on tender dog paws! Looks unattractive as well. But cheap no doubt bought in bulk.0
