Increase size of CLs?
Comments
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Sorry one and all.
I certainly got the wrong site. Seems there are 2 sites with a very similar name - Mount Pleasant
- at Redruth. Stuh's web site - http://www.caravan-club-cornwall.co.uk/ - does show the site as having EHU.Easy mistake to make Nellie. I was pointing out to Stuh that he needs to make sure Club amends his site to show EHU available at the first search, as it will not come up, therefore I would miss his site at first search, even though
his website shows he does have EHU. He might have done this and just waiting on Club to amend on Club website?
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Sorry one and all.
I certainly got the wrong site. Seems there are 2 sites with a very similar name - Mount Pleasant
- at Redruth. Stuh's web site - http://www.caravan-club-cornwall.co.uk/ - does show the site as having EHU.Easy mistake to make Nellie. I was pointing out to Stuh that he needs to make sure Club amends his site to show EHU available at the first search, as it will not come up, therefore I would miss his site at first search, even though
his website shows he does have EHU. He might have done this and just waiting on Club to amend on Club website?yes in the process of getting it updated - Thanks
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As Supertractorman made the statement and already has a successful CL, Stu, I guess he has a fair idea of what's involved.
I also have a succesful CL, I know whats involved and despite all the electrical work being done by a friend the materials costs alone (event at trade price) was significant given the return - I dont do it to make money but implying the CL owners are exadgerating
the costs is quite frankly a bit offensive!The cost of installing these facilities will vary hugely depending on how big the CL is, where the nearest services are located and if the connection is suitable under current regulations.... enough said about it now anyway.
I don't see anything offensive, Stu. Most farmers have equipment, such as tractors and diggers, and materials, such as hard core, already to hand and may not have had to incur the expense that you have if you don't have these items. STM will have been speaking
from his own experience as you spoke from yours.Write your comments here...
Seems I opened a can of worms, but I was only trying to say if you want to be creative it need not cost too much. I have proper armoured cable, 2 Caravan approved mounting posts with all breakers and coupled to our house electrics to take benefit from my
solar panels. My Hard standings use lumps of concrete from the runways of an old airfield covered with clean 20 ml stone. The digger I bought for £1800 was sold for £2000 !!. In making these statements I would like to encourage more folks to consider having
their own CL to give me more to visit while numbers are getting less and it is not as hard or as expensive to do.On a final point the main question I get on the phone is do you have Hard Standings, Electrics and do you take dogs. With 70% + repeat business I don't want more pitches, it is for us a retired persons hobby, but always wanting to increase business each
year.David www.perthshirecl.co.uk
Not to worry, maybe i jumped off on one as well
- I just read it in the wrong context i guess!0 -
Possibly Hard Standings need more definition, as I have a mix with some laid as 2 strips in the middle of grass and others as a large square with grass at the sides, which enables vans to park on the edge and erect awnings on the grass. All parking areas
are connected by roadways so no risk of driving on the grass and getting stuck in wet weather. I have also stayed on what was classed as Hard Standing which was 2 paving slabs set in a field, but how you got to them or away from them if you had a wet night
could well have been a problem.David www.perthshirecl.co.uk
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you only have to witness the success of the CCC THS program (where you get a pitch, water and waste points, usuually in a field.....at around £8 a night..) to see that the demand is still there.....
BB do you know for a fact that these rally type of events are a success? There was a West Wales Rally on a CS field near us last weekend and there could not have been more than 6 vans on it. I certainly not call that a success!!
ive been on a dozen or so over the past three years and can only speak as i find.....
there are others on CT who use them, they might have a view..
Our experience is similar. Indeed, we've just come back from a trip where we stayed on two THSs (Dalkeith Country Park & Alnwick Rugby Club) and passed another (Beadnell Bay), all of which were well attended.
We do most of our camping these days on THSs and rallies (43 THSs/Rallies in 2014/15/16 so far) organised by the C&CC and MCC. A minority of weekend rallies have only a few vans but the majority are very well attended.
One of the great attractions to us is that all but a few require no booking. Just turn up and stay for as many nights as you wish (great when caring duties mean that there is a high risk of having to cancel prior bookings).They are also well publicised in
the monthly magazines (especially handy for identifying options when one is on a tour and Internet access is sparse).I often wonder why the CC centres aren't able to work in such a free and easy (and successful) manner rather than insisting on advance booking (especially when there is no advance publicity in the monthly magazine).
Graham
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you only have to witness the success of the CCC THS program (where you get a pitch, water and waste points, usuually in a field.....at around £8 a night..) to see that the demand is still there.....
BB do you know for a fact that these rally type of events are a success? There was a West Wales Rally on a CS field near us last weekend and there could not have been more than 6 vans on it. I certainly not call that a success!!
Hi TDA.
Are you sure you are not looking at a rally rather than a THS?
Most THS's are not on CS sites they are on rugby fields, farmers fields and other interesting locations that are not regularly used for camping . We find ourselves using THS's more and more and every one we have visited so far have been very well attended.
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Hardstandings will destroy the whole concept of CL's
TF
That statement is complete twaddle, TF. Sorry, but it is. How on earth can a bit of hardcore ruin the concept of CLs?
Many CLs already have HS and they don't necessarily have to be the pristine manicured variety as used by CC. HS encourage me to use CLs whereas grass and mud send me elsewhere.
I am not so sure.
If hardstandings are in place then naturally you are likely to be expected to use them. They then become the place the EHU''s go further tying the unit to the hard standing. These hardstandings are so often all together in a line to keep installation costs down then at that point you might as well be like sardines on a cramped club site.
I don't think we are that unusual but we want to go anywhere in the field that we choose. More often than not its the lumpy bit on a slope that only those with a bit of practise behind them can level up properly. We usually find then we have few people camping nearby.
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Hardstandings will destroy the whole concept of CL's
TF
That statement is complete twaddle, TF. Sorry, but it is. How on earth can a bit of hardcore ruin the concept of CLs?
Many CLs already have HS and they don't necessarily have to be the pristine manicured variety as used by CC. HS encourage me to use CLs whereas grass and mud send me elsewhere.
I am not so sure.
If hardstandings are in place then naturally you are likely to be expected to use them. They then become the place the EHU''s go further tying the unit to the hard standing. These hardstandings are so often all together in a line to keep installation costs
down then at that point you might as well be like sardines on a cramped club site.I don't think we are that unusual but we want to go anywhere in the field that we choose. More often than not its the lumpy bit on a slope that only those with a bit of practise behind them can level up properly. We usually find then we have few people camping
nearby.I understand, Fysh. Some of us like grass and some prefer HS. As I said, there is room for all types and long may it be so.
TF clearly prefers grass and that is his choice, as it is yours. HS provision might destroy someone's ideal vision of a CL but it cannot destroy the whole concept of CLs.
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you only have to witness the success of the CCC THS program (where you get a pitch, water and waste points, usuually in a field.....at around £8 a night..) to see that the demand is still there.....
BB do you know for a fact that these rally type of events are a success? There was a West Wales Rally on a CS field near us last weekend and there could not have been more than 6 vans on it. I certainly not call that a success!!
Hi TDA.
Are you sure you are not looking at a rally rather than a THS?
Most THS's are not on CS sites they are on rugby fields, farmers fields and other interesting locations that are not regularly used for camping . We find ourselves using THS's more and more and every one we have visited so far have been very well attended.
Fysherman, it was I that posted the above comment. It was definitely a CC Centre Rally, as I stated. However we have seen, in the past, numerous THS which have only had a few vans on them.
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you only have to witness the success of the CCC THS program (where you get a pitch, water and waste points, usuually in a field.....at around £8 a night..) to see that the demand is still there.....
BB do you know for a fact that these rally type of events are a success? There was a West Wales Rally on a CS field near us last weekend and there could not have been more than 6 vans on it. I certainly not call that a success!!
Hi TDA.
Are you sure you are not looking at a rally rather than a THS?
Most THS's are not on CS sites they are on rugby fields, farmers fields and other interesting locations that are not regularly used for camping . We find ourselves using THS's more and more and every one we have visited so far have been very well attended.
Fysherman, it was I that posted the above comment. It was definitely a CC Centre Rally, as I stated. However we have seen, in the past, numerous THS which have only had a few vans on them.
Interesting that it was a CC rally. Low attendance because of the requirement to pre-book perhaps?
The THSs we've been to have been generally well attended but, thinking back, the fact that they run for extended periods, with people coming and going, means that attendance has been (temporarily) sparse at some from time to time.
Coming back onto thread a bit, there have been occasions when we have been the only van on a CL/CS. One, in particular was simply a farm field with fresh water and waste facilities. The owner could run at a profit, even on low attendance, because expenses
were low. She had resisted several calls from the CC to install EHU points (on the assumed grounds that bookings would increase). I saw her point because it would have taken years to recoup the cost (assuming it would eventually have been recouped).Graham
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Its a difficult decision for Cls to move from the original field corner, occasiinally mowed to a site now required by most users, ie EHU and often some hard standing. The cost even on a DIY basis is significant as is the necessity to have annual eletrical
inspctions ETC. I feel the biggest constraint is the 5 van rule which so limits income . Many Cls are in fields of over an acre and these can easily accommodate 8/10 vans with plenty of roomThere could be a ase for different types of CL depending sayon size.From
my experience obtaining the necessary planning permission is not a problem and the worry of seeking a change to a rule which is 50 years old is overstated.0 -
There's another thread running saying that the Club can't make money at one of its main sites with 22 pitches, can't afford to staff it, and can only run it with unpaid volunteers - yet the Club encourages owners to set up a site with a 5 van limit.
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we recently had a quote of 14k just to get electric into the field add to that approx 2k in bollards etc and its an expensive ubdertakung. Therefore we opted to spend a few hundred on new fences, gedges and improving the overall look of the site with the
theory that many are moving onto solar etc and prefer not to pay for electric. Time will tell.0 -
With the costs you quote new sites go straight to planning to make the cost worthwhile.In the scale of things the planning fee is minute and provided access is OK small scale sites get nodded through.
...They might in Welshland but not in England
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There's another thread running saying that the Club can't make money at one of its main sites with 22 pitches, can't afford to staff it, and can only run it with unpaid volunteers - yet the Club encourages owners to set up a site with a 5 van limit.
...Because until the legislation is changed they are not allowed to give permision for any more
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With the costs you quote new sites go straight to planning to make the cost worthwhile.In the scale of things the planning fee is minute and provided access is OK small scale sites get nodded through.
...They might in Welshland but not in England
It's not true in Wales either but it's not worth the debate. Anyone trying to get planning permission in Wales will find out soon enough how much work has to be done before anything is near approval
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Fysherman, it was I that posted the above comment. It was definitely a CC Centre Rally, as I stated. However we have seen, in the past, numerous THS which have only had a few vans on them.
Then of course I fully accept your observations.
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I have noted the comments of those that followed my post earlier, and whilst I understand and have sympathy with many of them they are failing to recognise that there is a problem.
Too many CL's are closing, and unless something is done to address the problem we may have a much reduced stock soon.
I am sure that Captain Smith in his brand new liner, thought that a few Icebergs were not going to cause him a problem either. Just keep going as it is, everything is fine!
TF
TF, I have read every post of this thread up to here, and at last I am reading some good common sense. Fisherman also makes a lot of sense. Can I take this oppertunity as a CL owner to say I believe the 5van rule is antiquated, and places a cap on natural
expansion and growth. For me, I,d like to ask all those who believe in the 5van rule if they also believe in a, a ban on overtime, b,wage capping, c,bonuses, d,annual pay rises and so on?EV0 -
Hi Sara and Robin, You will soon outgrow the CL system. Good luck with your business development.
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The reason that there is a limit to 5 vans is to cap growth and expansion. It's nothing to do with the CC
Five vans are unlikely to have much impact in planning terms and that is why it is set at five. The same thing occurs in mainstream planning - you can put up sheds and build small extensions without planning permission but anything larger will need planning permission
If growth or expansion is desirable then there is a system in place. Apply for planning permission and get the necessary approvals and licences.
Unrestricted expansion of development in rural areas is not what authorities want
My personal view is that sites wishing to take more than five vans would be far better served outside the CL network where they can advertise freely and accept who they want on site
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EV, if you wanted more pitches, why did you not get planning permission via the LA route? We have stayed on some nice private sites that have done this, not large, 20 pitches, split between caravans and tents.
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I have noted the comments of those that followed my post earlier, and whilst I understand and have sympathy with many of them they are failing to recognise that there is a problem.
Too many CL's are closing, and unless something is done to address the problem we may have a much reduced stock soon.
I am sure that Captain Smith in his brand new liner, thought that a few Icebergs were not going to cause him a problem either. Just keep going as it is, everything is fine!
TF
TF, I have read every post of this thread up to here, and at last I am reading some good common sense. Fisherman also makes a lot of sense. Can I take this oppertunity as a CL owner to say I believe the 5van rule is antiquated, and places a cap on natural expansion and growth. For me, I,d like to ask all those who believe in the 5van rule if they also believe in a, a ban on overtime, b,wage capping, c,bonuses, d,annual pay rises and so on?EV
The suggestion that the 5 van rule is antiquated holds no water at all.
As posted nearly 2 months ago (16 June), there is no need to change the limit as the existing legislation copes with any change of circumstances which a site owner requires.
Any site owner who wishes to cater for more than 5 vans has the option of obtaining a full site licence and, so long as the relevant conditions can be met, should have no problem in doing so.
Increasing the limit would only provide a way for owners who can not meet the relevant conditions to circumvent planning rules and there is no more justification for that as regards caravan sites than there is for any other planning matter.
Notwithstanding the above, there is no chance of the 1960 Act being revised in the near future, anyway, because governments (of all persuasions) have seen no merit in doing so. That is especialy the case when there are far more pressing matters demanding parliamentary time.
Graham
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I agree with Graham and others. The 5van exemption exists to fill a need by a simple process without massive regulatory input. It helps site owners set up a small site in a cost effective way with minimum hassle but site owners who want a larger site are
quite at liberty to go down the commercial route and apply for the necessary permission. It will obviously incur greater cost and regulation than the relatively simple exemption process but, as they say, there's no gain without pain.0
