Best MHSP Ever - Should CAMC Follow Suit?
Comments
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Thanks for all the replies but I think some have missed the point. Up until a year or so ago we were caravan owners and really only looked at the MHSP without thinking through the practicalities except we could see a massive flaw and H&S implication having to lift a drain cover.
Now we have used a MH for over a year in different places here and in France and the fact that the CAMC are upgrading the service points my thoughts were if a jobs worth doing its worth doing well. Why not design it once and for all to be easy to use for any type of van, wherever the dump valve/pipe is located and that would make it easy to maintain and use, not only dumping grey water but the WC waste as well.
So to answer a few questions thrown up....
MH Design - Unfortunately there is no EU regulation on how a MH waste should work so manufacturers all differ. We have a very good set up (IMHO) we have a service box in which is located the fresh and grey waste valves, fresh water fill point and a flap to pass the EHU cable up to plug in, all nicely locked away out of sight and secure. WE have seen some on lower end (mostly British) vans with a pipe hanging under the van with a tap on the end so you have to crawl under, others on higher end vans with a camera system and electric valve so you can sit in the cab and dump waste. All these are in different positions on the van, front, mid, rear, left and right which means each van has to be in a different position to get over a drain/grid so I do not think the issue is with design of vans. Makers will design the waste valves to suit layout and price of van they are selling.
H&S - I hardly see a gentle slope over 10 or 20 foot being a trip hazard, the one in the picture was used by cars and pedestrians as well as cyclists, skateboarders etc. I did not notice anyone tripping but I only walked passed it a couple of times a day over 4 days but who knows if I waited long enough...
CAMC Upgrade - Some seem to think though they are upgrading thats enough and have defended the design, but as stated above although its an improvement its far from perfect. WE have been on many commercial sites that don' have any provision, you have to somehow decant into the caravan points. In DK picture the grid is sort of central so it means if your valve is left of right you will stick out, if its at the front your rear will stick out and if its back your front will stick out etc.
And it was nice to hear from the experts in the caravan community who obviously have lots of experience of this. The debate was to get a better design before the roll out programme gets too far advanced, anyone going to Thetford will see the mother of all bad design of a MHSP, so if you are going to improve why not have the best for the same or maybe little more outlay?
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terrific post, Michael, says it all....
do it once, do it right, to accommodate all designs....simple, and as dear/cheap as doing it badly.0 -
As a caravanner and only an onlooker with no experience
We stopped this year at Camp Aquiliea a few miles from the Adriatic, the M/H dump station was approx 12 x 12 metres concreted and within that a 10 x 10 metres four sided gentle slope to a good sized grated drain. It's size catered for all Motorhomes and outlet positions and I used it for emptying my portable grey tank.
Also was a sign saying to use it for washing of vehicles, hose provided. Well I thought it was good and well designed, and freshened up my dusty car in the process
Compare that with Baltic Wharf where missing the badly designed empty point meant the pitch opposite received your waste water, with thanks due to the slope in the road
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Let me start by getting something clear. I have never ever emptied waste from a motor caravan.
What makes me an expert on waste "dumping" is doing that with black waste from coaches. The places are often available in the commercial vehicle side of fuel stations, and are widely available on the continent of Europe. There is no need to get out to use them, the grid is wider than the coaches, and also about the same length, so there is no need to know where the outlet from the electrically operated dump valve is located on any individual coach.
I think many have a flush system activated when the coach moves on, but I've never waited behind to watch. The grids are small enough to walk on safely (high heels excepted - but these are not safe anywhere) and carry the weight of a coach, which is much heavier than a motor caravan.
So if we are prompting the Caravan Club to install proper future-proof facilities then that is more the model to be looking at. They seem to have been in use in this form for decades and adequately handling grey and black waste.
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Just out of interest Clumber Park has a combined dog and bike wash point.
David
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Just out of interest. If they can also be used as a car / van wash, which I would certainly make use off, does this not this lead to folk not being able to dump waste. Or are you only able to use it as a wash in the afternoon, once any leavers have left / dumped.
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The MHSP at Baltic Wharf was the epitome of dreadful design when I was there.
We were on the last remaining pitch - right next to it. We were treated to a spectacular view of folk struggling to use the point. Our car was blocked in twice when we were in it and ready to leave for a day out. Best of all it's pretty close to the site entrance so new arrivals can be held up waiting to pass leading to congestion elsewhere. It was shocking. So bad in fact that we try to identify where the MHSP is on site so we can avoid it.
Improvements are essential but I don't think that one size fits all. I'm not a motorhomer but I do have many years experience of drainage design for far more complicated issues than a campsite. Each site is different and each site needs to be considered on its own merits but one thing is for sure - MHSPs need to be away from the pitching areas
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Steve, i dont know what sites youve used overseas, but many dont have the quaint 'arrive/leave at a particular time' scenarios that you have alluded to in your post....
vanners come and go all day long as most of the sites ive used, one in, one out....
to think that there would need to be a rule about who could use what parts of the facilities in which part of the day is surely 'foreign' to those sites.
if i wanted to use the MHSP in the morning or in the afternoon, that would be upto me.....or any other vanner (or car washer) for that matter.
if i had to wait, id make a judgement decision as to how long.....
i just couldnt contemplate a typical site in Fance/Spain dreaming up a rule to schedule use of a communal facility.
folk there just get on with it.....or not
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Just another point to consider or rather two.
Surely palnning permission is required for changes to a site. It is often required for hard standings so I would imagine it would be required for a MHSP. I cannot think that a slab of sloping concrete, being not disimilar to a hard standing, would be objected to but in sensitive areas..perhaps?
Don't vehicle wash points have, by law, to now be environmentally friendly and have water recyling facilities and filters?
I would like to see a better design, currently it may not be the best but there could be more to it than just constructing a large sloping drain.
peedee
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We arrived mid/late morning and no one was using it so no issues. I guess most usage is on arrival and departure so middle of the day is generally clear but most of the time the point was clear as are the ones here, very rarely have to queue. Only queue I was was on an Aire in the Dordogne in the morning 4 or 5 vans lined up to use the services so we bypassed that by dumping/filling at a SP at another Aire in Sarlat we were going to use as a car park for the day..
Most sites don't really enforce a arrival departure time but one site we were on did have a 10:00 am departure rule but did have an area where you could park for the day and use the site facilities, beach, showers etc then leave by 6pm now that may be another can of worms...
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Thanks BB, AD and MT. They are fair points in relation to sites abroad. Here though I could see it causing real problems if I decide to wash my car at 9:30 ish just as 5 or 6 motorvans are preparing to leave. Also there is peedee's point. It certainly applies to those in filling stations, that is why they were still able to operate in drought conditions / hose pipe bans.
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whilst MHSP abroad often double as car washes, here at CC, focussing on a decent MHSP that does that single job well should be more of a priority than car washes and getting around the congestion they would obviously cause on most CC sites.
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What a sensible post.
We have often had to park opposite to traffic flow to empty grey waste and block the roadway whilst we discharge. So many tut, like it's our fault and clearly it's in the planning of the MSP. I have hurt my back trying to lift the cover and OH suffers with back issues. To have to lift the cover whilst it is partially under the vehicle is a real safety issue. A very slight slope allows the waste to fall natually and a hose to wash down after use is sensible.
This is a really serious issue that needs to be addressed or more will discharge as they go along roads or on the pitch. I am NOT advocating such behaviour.
How can it be bad design of motorhome as all are slightly different as are cars. The design is to accommodate the motorhome facilities, same as a house piping should be sensible to the layout and design.
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The MH service point at BW is a bit of a red herring. Agreed it is in a stupid position. However where would you put it on such a confined site without loosing a pitch and at least £10,000 a year revenue?. Rather academic in any event unless there is a reprieve.
Although if this should happen, even in its existing position a grid type would make it quicker and much safer to discharge.
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Why is it a red herring? It's an example of poor design.
I think it's useful to identify poor examples and explain why they are poor.
The experience we had at BW was not enhanced by the location of the MHSP. It was memorably bad. As a customer I expect reasonable equality in pitches.
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ive only used the site once, i seem to remember having to (virtually) circumnavigate the site twice to dump and then leave due to the one way system.
nothing wrong with highlighting where improvements can be made, whether this be to so,ething physical, like MHSPs, or to a process.
the problem we always seem to come across on CT (where this is only a friendly discussion forum) is the incredible amount of resistance to the smallest of changes.
CC is going through (by its own admission and subsequent rebrand) a period of fast moving change, based on market demands and the take up of more campers and MHs.
i would expect most (market leading, multi million pound) organisations to be 'getting their ducks in a row) especially as they have laid their cards firmly on the table...
a '20 year' roll out of ('improved') MHSPs simply beggars belief...
we'll all be in electric cars and evaporated grey waste by then
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It is useful to identify poor examples. However, folk are continually posting on CT about the members not being consulted. So as well as identifying the problems, specific solutions would also be useful. As I put, even if left in the existing position a grid type would speed things up as there would be no difficult covers to lift and position over. What are your suggestions for Baltic Wharf, if reprieved. Where would you sight it, would you be prepared to loose pitche(s) etc!
Agree you would have had to orbit the site, once BB. Not sure why you would have to leave it though. You can turn back into the one way system without exiting,
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Not an actual figure David. I was just working on an average of about £27 a night for the year. As Baltic Wharf always seems to be full and is open all year. At peak, which is an awful lot of the year the figure is well above that, particularly if there is a family of 4. Even the from figure for two is £24.10.
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Actually M the opposite may be better, stop the caravans blocking the streets of Bristol and only allow MH's as they are half the length of a car and van combo so the residents may not be so uptight. Also introduce an Aire concept a'la continent and we would get 3 times as many MH's in so satisfy demand thus killing 2 birds with 1 stone....
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I'm not going to argue with that Michael - I wouldn't dream of towing the van anywhere near Bristol. It's bad enough getting our little Micra along the M32 to see Rovers or into the centre for Hippodrome or Colston Hall.
A place best avoided wherever possible!
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