What Would a UK Club Type Aire Look Like
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Also the inclusivity of what has been proposed bothers me. Whilst these discounted pitches would be open to caravans and motorhomes alike, how many folk towing a large caravan are going to risk waiting until 5 / 6 pm to secure a place for the night. Now with a 7 metre van I might give it a go, when we had a 12.50 metre rig to find somewhere to park up, not a chance.
I agree but with a caravan I would suggest a last minute booking is a sensible approach e.g. perhaps on the morning you intend to travel. I would even try to do that with a motorhome.
peedee
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A lot was money was spent? Do you actually know that for a fact or just just a subjective feeling?
I don't think it did cost a lot. From personal experience the SP at Troutbeck, where we saw them being put in, they were actually from the static caravans that were there when the club took over the site that were being taken out. The electrics, waste and fresh water needed for a SP were already there so not a lot of money I would say there in addition to making new HS pitches which was going to happen anyway.
People think that SP are a new invention but they were already there when I joined in 1999. At other places SP they were usually near to the toilet block for water I suppose, and of course EHU was already there, these were usually 10 or so pitches close to the facilities block so a lot of money?
But that's a good point how did the club know to introduce EHU, way before SP? And move over to virtually all EHU sites?
I think the club knew the answer before they were put in, in probably not a sophiscated methods as today but they knew, postal surveys and maybe even looking at the competition.
Just because you never saw a specific survey about SP doesn't mean it didn't happen of course, and of course surveys by email/online were certainly not a thing in 1999. However I do call posts on here about EF before they were introduced and a definite survey was talked about then.
Anyway that's in the past, looking forward my point is (again) that if the club has done its homework and thinks it's a nice little earner and won't upset current users which could lead to a loss of income then it should go for it. But I do have to say that you're we won't know till it tried approach, and then a national level even, is reckless.
What's wrong with doing some research?
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But I do have to say that you're we won't know till it tried approach, and then a national level even, is reckless.
Trials often involve actually doing things, it's all part of the research process. Rather like the research trials of ANPR and metered electricity. In this case is trialing at a national level really going to be massively expensive if it is treated to KISS?
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Peedee
Could you not ask the same question about the provision of electricity? I am sure we both remember when only limited pitches had access to electrics but that eventually became virtually all pitches over time. With serviced pitches I imagine it was a question of a trend developing either within the Club or perhaps across the wider camping trends on commercial sites? I think Chatsworth has had various forms of serviced pitches for some time. But also remember that serviced pitches are an enhancement of the overall offer which give added value to the Club. What is being suggested is the complete opposite, its taking away value from the Club. I agree with those that suggest the sort of price level expected by some is wildly out of step with what would be the reality. I made the suggestion that a reduction in the region of 10/20% was more realistic but that would take the price way beyond what some are willing to spend. My reasoning for suggesting 10/20% is that would be inline with current offers being made by the Club.
David
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Any potential changes have to be looked at from the overall Club perspective, not from the individual point of view.
Is there underused space/capacity that could be better used?
Is there a market out there for this, as yet untapped?
What are the requirements to make something work, (infrastructure, training, marketing, etc)
What is the likely impact on existing customers v increased usage/increased income
What are the eco credentials, how inclusive can we make this.
All depends on business turnover at the time, and how much any changes are needed going into the future.
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Well I was taught, and applied it successfully many a time, that one does research first, for costs, interest, viability, effects... then plan the trail in detail with costs and success criteria... and only then actually doing a trial - did I say otherwise?
You appear, and PD as well, appear to be suggesting doing a trial before all that and see what happens? Hopefully assuming it won't be massively expensive? What is the cut off for massive?
Just assuming it's not going to be massively expensive (I mean even the term massively is open to interpretation and you don't appear to know from your post there) is just not best practice, spending money without good research and a plan with costs is reckless and as you suggest without a pre set limit could mean that costs just spiral out of control. You're not a member and so it won't any of be your money that is being used.
The first question: is there a demand from current member/users of cub sites for this?
But as I said the club has done this before it will know what to do. If the club yes, that's good enough for me.
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+1, and yes about EHU? If CT could have been around would there have been threads about it?
It would appear from posts that the asking price should be about under £20? That's a big reduction for five hours in my view. Then PD even suggests that should be applied from 4pm, that's an even bigger reduction for only losing three hours and in my view just not viable, and could be easily abused.
It's gone now (or not been posted about) about early arrivals and the queues forming before 1pm. With a 6pm, or even worse 4pm, it's possible that will happen again. People waiting in their outfits for the 6pm or 4pm time limit before stepping into the office. What happens if 'full paying' outfits arrive behind them? If I had to give a time it would be 7pm or even 7.30pm.
Pure conjecture I know especially as I don't think there's a demand and prices won't be that low in the first place to entice all the posters in favour.
If people want this type of provision wouldn't a CL be better? Why does it have to be a club site? There must be something special about them?
As posted I can't see CL owners being too happy if it did happen.
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Pure conjecture I know especially as I don't think there's a demand and prices won't be that low in the first place to entice all the posters in favour.
Ask the 40,000 members of CAMpRA that question and see what answer you get! Like I said upthread, if the Club cannot offer a price with EHU similar to that paid at sites like Cadeside and Stover which are popular night stops, especially the former, then they shouldn't even think about "Quickstops" Above that and it would not be at all competitive.
peedee
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Here are some examples of alternative places to stay for a night……
https://www.searchforsites.co.uk/marker.php?id=45946
https://www.searchforsites.co.uk/marker.php?id=43714
https://www.searchforsites.co.uk/marker.php?id=49887
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Is there underused space/capacity that could be better used?
All the Club has to do is look at pitch availability, even Melrose has availability over the Bank holiday
Is there a market out there for this, as yet untapped?
Yes at the right price, its not untapped though, the availability of overnight stopover places is growing. The real question is, does the Club want to be part of this market or not? If they don't what impact is that going to have on membership?
What are the requirements to make something work, (infrastructure, training, marketing, etc)
They are no more onerous than offering the current discounts, book within a defined period e.g. within 24 hours of the arrival time or even just turn up on spec, arrive after and leave before the appointed times. Its got to be better than leaving a pitch empty.
What is the likely impact on existing customers v increased usage/increased income
I cannot see any impact on existing customers that isn't present now.
peedee
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Surely electricity to pitches has been around for a long time? I fitted a hook up facility on our first caravan, which we got in 1973, not immediately, but certainly by 1977. We used it for charging the battery, boiling the kettle, running the 3 way fridge, and using a small fan heater.
No idea however when hook up facility was routinely provided in new caravans, we sold that van in 1983 and only returned to caravanning in 1997, by which time vans were luxurious by comparison.
Anyway……I was trying to find out more on the cost of the QuickStops in Scandinavia, not a cheap area of Europe as most will know, but have had mixed success, finding some sites that charge 150-270 Swedish kroner depending on whether you take EHU and access to facilities, or not. That is something like £11-£20, the higher one being around 50% of the normal nightly rate for a full facility site. The lower price seems to be for a MH aire with only water and waste . But if it can be done over there for that sort of price, why not here?
It is very popular in Sweden as, like Norway, it is a very “long” country and taking your caravan or MH down to France or Spain in the summer is very popular. People want to get there as soon as possible so cover long distances at the start and end of their trips, arriving on a site late, usually 8pm, and are off again by maybe as early as 8am. Having seen outfits arrive and leave, couples are sharing the driving.
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I'm lost at the logic of asking another organisation what should the demand is for club members wanting aires/Quickstop type provision on its sites?
Is there a lot of demand there? I've really no idea and you haven't answered that at all part from pointing to a relatively very small organisation that wants aires. As posted I've nothing against them but are current aires full? If there is so much demand why aren't other provides jumping in?
Why small? only 40,000 members out of how many MH owners in the UK, which I believe is about 760,000 as of 2022 and still growing, Now to me that doesn't sound very representative and showing a great demand? The club has 380,000 family members half of which likely to be MH owners members, so if you're talking numbers who wins in representing MH owners? I've no idea but I'm just interesting in the club?
And why should I ask Campra what the club should set its prices?
After all your posts now you're saying the club shouldn't think about aires/Quickstops because of price? It's not up to you or me only what the club decides to do, why not wait for any real facts and figures?
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I think we might be on the same wave length PD.
I posted it as a suggestion as to how the Club might look at something to increase usage/income. Only they will have the figures around unused capacity, costs, etc….. Members can only speculate. We are told that the Pods went onto areas unused on Sites, so the type of research is ongoing.
The alternative options are certainly out there, the three I highlighted are from a long CamPRa approved list.
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Brilliant PD, so why not use those - are they full, why do you want a club site.
Actually from the pictures I can see why you do.
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even Melrose has availability over the Bank holiday
Well really very largely misleading there PD, there isn't really, not over the (three night) weekend as you put it, it has no availability on HS with awning pitches, none on SP, and it has only one night free over the weekend for a non awning pitch and even they are low, oh the night free is a Sunday as well.
Impact, apart from start up costs which may not cover any additional income.
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Apologies not PD in my reply above about sites, it was Tda. Same view/belief though!
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Well its looking like Scotland has a plan and raising the finance to provide Aires. It will be interesting to see how it goes
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They are nice examples, I have to say I was pleasantly surprised when I had a look at the CamPRA and saw just how many new examples there were since we were last touring, last year. Hundreds more, vary hugely in location, services, prices etc….. The ones we have used were very popular, you had to be arriving by 2pm to get exactly what you wanted, or reserve a pitch up either by phone, email or booking in. They won’t suit everyone, and very very few allow caravans. Some you are limited to one night, others you can stay a bit longer. Those three are out in the sticks a bit, but there are others close to towns, short easy walk.
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There’s a big piece in the Guardian today about how the backlash around tourism is affecting Spain, and how the dissatisfaction is spreading. It sounds very much like the high volume tourism areas in UK, local housing is being used for holiday lets, property prices are astronomical, local services at times are overwhelmed.
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Why small? only 40,000 members out of how many MH owners in the UK, which I believe is about 760,000 as of 2022 and still growing, Now to me that doesn't sound very representative and showing a great demand? The club has 380,000 family members half of which likely to be MH owners members, so if you're talking numbers who wins in representing MH owners? I've no idea but I'm just interesting in the club?
If, if you are right then that leaves 570,000 owners who are not members, some thing is not right, is the club not attractive enough or have you got your facts wrong again?
peedee
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even Melrose has availability over the Bank holiday
Well really very largely misleading there PD, there isn't really, not over the (three night) weekend as you put it, it has no availability on HS with awning pitches, none on SP, and it has only one night free over the weekend for a non awning pitch and even they are low, oh the night free is a Sunday as well.
From the web site at 1540L
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Brilliant PD, so why not use those - are they full, why do you want a club site.
For short stays, I do along with CLs and CSs so the Club loses out. On my last trip out for 10 days I did not use any Club sites at all, in fact of the 55 nights away so far this year, only 13 have been spent on Club sites and 3 of those were on non facility sites. My next two trips out do not use Club sites either.
I think this thread has gone on long enough, I have made my points and as far as I am concerned that is it.
peedee
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Government stats that there 760,000 MHs. Club stats are 380,000 family members, half motorhomes .
Are you saying all MH onwers have to be, or should be members? You want to rethink that? I think the current figure is pretty good, about 25%.
Anyway 40,000 MH out of 760,000 isn't that representative or showing great demand.
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Not sure where you're looking PD but there is only one night free on a non awning pitch at Melrose over the BH holiday.
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Sorry I think I double added, missing off the with awning.
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I think there is some misunderstanding about CAMPRA. For those who dont know it is an organisation whose purpose is to encourage the setting up of aires. They assist organisations and individuals in doing so. They advocate with local authorities. I believe I am correct in saying they are the certificating authority for many CAMPRA aires. Those aires can all be found on Search For Sites. People who are members of CAMPRA are there to give support to the organisation and its aims. Some also actively seek potential "places" for aires. You do not need to be a member of CAMPRA to use its aires. 40000 represents a substantial group of activist motorhomers.
I referred up thread to the work being done in Angus to establish aires. CAMPRA is one of the organisations, along with Motorhome Fun and The Motorcaravanners Association, referred to in the documentaion from Angus as organisation who can assist.
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They are doing some excellent lobbying 👏👏👏
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Hja, as you quoted my post and replied to me I assume you think I'm one of the ones who may not understand or know about it. If not and it was aimed generally and using my post then apologies.
Well not so, PD has mentioned them a number of times in various threads and I have looked at their website a number of times. A commendable organisation dedicated to a common aim.
PD used their membership number to give some ideas of the demand for this type of provision and if the demand is as he says they'll be very busy and I really hope they will do well.
Nothing to do with me, but as you replied to me I would question however that 40,000 is a substantial amount? It sounds a lot but compared to the background population of MH owners it's just 5 in every 100 (assuming its members are mainly) MH owners?
And as in my point to PD, irrespective of the group's aims and objectives, does that low percentage indicate such a great demand that club sites should offer a discount for arriving a few (as little as three has been suggested) hours late. Is there that demand within the club and do current club members and those using its sites want it, or should it be left to other providers. A few posters on CT doesn't prove it for or against, but again if the clubs finds differently then it should go for it.
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