What Would a UK Club Type Aire Look Like
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Nail on head there, PD. The areas like Scotland have seen a need for stopping places and have started putting them in place especially for touring the likes of the NC500. That’s to be applauded and is exactly why, in my view, such provision should be organised in the targeted areas by the communities/organisations affected rather than a national club which has no input to, nor is directly affected by, the transient MH tourers. I see this as two completely different sectors of the leisure industry.
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I’m not sure that Aires in the strictest sense of the word have arrived anywhere in this country, although from our experience Scotland is at least trying. It all depends what you think of as an “attraction” as well. That to me might be a peaceful forest where I can walk or ride my bike, or a riverside park up close to a lovely little town like Kircudbright. Others might want/ need a more town/ village centred stay, little or next to no walking.
I don’t think it’s ever going to be the Club that provides something like this, and in truth, not sure that they have either the will or the need to, given it runs the CL network. An entity like the NT could make it work, given the land they own, and the big car parks that are on property estates, but again, users will probably want water, CPD disposal, so would need a business plan. The NFU is a possible other entity that could be worth approaching.
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Sorry, that was wrongly phrased PD to be honest, I should have said there aren’t that many true Aires around, and we like you have used a few😁 Will look for that one in Hawick, we like the Borders. Have just looked at the CamPra section of S4S, some good looking ones on there. We stopped on a lovely overnight place near Bury St Edmunds a couple of years ago, Magglia Rosso. Bike shop with a delicious cafe. Free overnight. Safe and quiet little village.
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The National Trust, Historic England and any number of our famous Country Houses could make provision for overnight parking as with some exceptions they have the space. The problem, however, is that they will be tempted to include an overnight stay with access to the property with an appropriate fee? Didn't this happen at Stourhead and of course Portmeirion. So anyone thinking they would be providing good value stopovers is probably in for a shock, unless the intention is also to visit the property.
David
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I think you are right about Stourhead David, isn't/waasn't there a CL on site? Some inroads have been made with the NT, they now provide motorhome parking places at some sites and I think they ran overnight trials on a site in the Lake District. (It might still be open) I think their main concern about overnight stop overs is security of any buildings on sites.
peedee
P.S. Just checked and looks like NT are running all ex CLs themselves and Stourhead is still available with entry to the estate.
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We’ve booked Stourhead as it’s an ideal place to meet friends but at £30 a night (admission to estate included) it is a bit overpriced as we are National Trust members. Normally we wouldn’t have used it but it’s in the right place. Portmeirion was £75 a night but included admission, which would have cost £40. There was also a tap on each pitch and a very good facilities block. I thought it good value for money. Unlike the CAMC the full amount was payable at the time of booking for both sites and lost in the event of cancellation.
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cant see Airies type sites being very plentiful in the UK, although i have seen a number of pubs in Devon/Cornwall that allow overnight parking but some are insisting that you buy an evening meal/breakfast which for some is a no no !! , and when i saw an 8m MH towing a car trying to navigate the narrow road up to the car park at Godrevey beach earlier this year i did wonder what the driver was using as a brain.
I know they work in France but i think the make up of France and the open countryside which is plentiful lends itself to Airies type sites and motorhomes.
and it would seem route NC500 has many problems with Motorhomes/campervans, i see at least 1 article per week on google as below.
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I’ve just recalled the last Aire/stopover we used, it was in Pickering. Just behind Big Bear Cycles, who own and run it. £12 for overnight, with water, CPD, rubbish disposal, and parking the next day to visit the town. There’s a Lidl across the road and plenty of nice eateries in Pickering. It’s well used, and a good set up. Back down the road, Helmsley has lost its stopover thanks to bad behaviour that finally had the the locals very angry.
Bit unfair of NT to charge Members a full price for stopover. That would be better as a separate entity, and Member entry to property. We wouldn’t pay £30 per night for a car park.
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Bit unfair of NT to charge Members a full price for stopover. That would be better as a separate entity, and Member entry to property. We wouldn’t pay £30 per night for a car park.
I agree there should be a discount for National Trust membership. However, as far as I know, the Stouthead site whilst at the back of the overspill area is a separate CL with the normal disposal / water facilities and EHU. I believe they have a few areas at other properties that are just in car parks.
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I am not sure what a true aire is. I think aires vary from country to country and vary enormously. Surely the model will vary according to circumstances. Maybe we should use the term legitimate overnight stop or something similar. There are certainly aires near attractions - think Louth, Gretna. Canterbury and others mentioned above. Some have facilities, some dont. what I dont think we will get is the free aires that are popular in France. Personally, that's OK. I dont mind paying eg £10 to stay on a legitimate overnight stop with water, and toilet disposal that is an area we wish to be in, or that is on our way from a to b.
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Yes, I recall the one at Stourhead being a proper CL. NT campsites aren’t cheap options at the best of times, we have used a couple of coastal ones in the past in Cornwall. Not based at properties, but on NT owned land.
I’m never sure what to call overnight stops in UK. We think of most as Pub stops, or legal overnight park ups, unless they call themselves an “Aire”.
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But is the provision of yet more glamping accommodation the right way for the Club to go? The market in statics and glamping is very crowded, the choice is huge and the competition great. The cost of provisioning and running of Glamping accommodation must surely be higher than providing a few more pitches no matter how they are configured.
It is supposed to be a Caravan and Motorhome Club and as such should be providing facilities for it members who own such outfits. There is a demand for lower cost short stays by motorhome/campervan owners, which in my view will not diminish. The Club could have easilly made provision for this at these popular sites
peedee
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But is the provision of yet more glamping accommodation the right way for the Club to go?
Peedee
It might well depend on where you are in your touring career so to speak. If like us, who have recently given up touring, it might be an attractive proposition. It's also a way of widening the appeal of the Club so the wider family can be included. I am not sure of the status of "Experience Freedom" is within the Club structure. Is it a separate limited company whose finances are independent of the site network?
On your point about the provision of a lower cost short stays I am unsure how this would be justified by charging a significantly lower charge per night than someone on a standard pitch? Imagine the outcry if someone on a standard pitch paying £40 a night realised that a motorhome was only paying £10/15 with the same access to the facilities. So even if such provision was provided I doubt there would be the cost saving that some are anticipating?
David
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PD have you stayed at a club site with these Experience freedom cabins/pods...
I have actually stayed in one and when at the TBH site these cabins are on the SP area and I can hand on heart say that they are always being used all year round, or at least when I've been there on many visits during the year. They bring in three times the price (and sometimes nearly four times) of a pitch for an outfit and bring in people to stay on site. I suspect it's a great source of income for the club and we then all benefit.
And I think this has been posted before they are on larger sites where there is still enough pitches left. Certainly at Coniston and TH
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I’ve always considered it a future proofing move by the Club to put in Camping and Glamping Pods. They allow non outfit owning friends and family to holiday alongside those with an outfit, and for anyone who has toured long term, but had to give up perhaps for health reasons, offer the ability to still enjoy Club life on a Club Site. If you are used to using a compact tourer, rather than cottages or hotels, then the transition to staying in one is very easy, all you need is clothes, a bit of food and a few other extras. I was under the impression that they tended to be placed on areas not suited for pitches, but not quite sure at Cayton Bay, as they utilise around a third of the space on the lower tier, but it is a very big site anyway. They seem to be priced quite expensive (compared with other providers) or ridiculously cheap depending on special offers! We keep an eye out to go with friends as it’s cheaper than a pitch night occasionally.
I don’t think the Club is the best option to provide overnight stopovers. There’s usually a lot of accompanying “baggage” with the Club, lots of do’s and don’ts, hoops to jump through, and that’s before you get on-site with change resistant fellow Members. They might have been able to do something with smaller areas of the now long gone no facility sites, but most of these are now history, or owned by others.0 -
When I eventually have to stop the wheels revolving, I cannot see us moving to any form of static rentals. With the limited ability to travel and tour on multiple days in a year gone, I think we will be seeking other forms of holidays, most likely where sunshine is guaranteed.
I have not been on any of the Club sites which offers the Freedom Experience nieither do I have any knowledge of how it is funded. I have been on C&CC sites, which used to offer Glamping, but my understanding is they have now decided to give up offering their luxuary safari tents. I wonder why?
As for using expanison areas to offer lower cost short stop over pitches, where there is a will there is a way. Its done on sites on the Continent so why can it not be done here. We are not all looking for very low cost solutions but there is no reason why such pitches cannot be partitioned off from the main site and be provided at a similar cost to none facility sites. Even caravan owners in transit could use them.
peedee
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PD, I suspect the glamping tents on C&CC sites have had their day. They’re only canvas structures and have been in use for some years.
Check out their lodges at places like Winchcombe and Braithwaite Village and you’ll see they are in a different class altogether. CAMC have nothing like that. Then there are static caravans which are sold and also rented out by C&CC, and also the more standard pods/cabins for hire. In terms of static accommodation, C&CC are streets ahead of CAMC and well worth considering for a self catering stay.
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It would appear that there is a paradigm for which no single organisation caters for, that of the one night (cheap) stop over. Presumably, if there was a demonstrated demand AND business case to support an Aire type offering in the UK, we would have at least seen something developing. It is understandable that many Motorhome/Camper van users would find such a facility useful. However, with no organisation taking the lead in setting out to develop a network of Aires, the inconvenient truth is that the fragmented accommodation provision in the UK prevails with major clubs offering sites, CLs, CCs and plethora of pubs etc offering overnight facilities. I joined the club originally for the network of useful sites and opportunity to use small CLs if needed. It is true that the Club offering is not always the cheapest, but balanced with other benefits it suits many Motorhomers, Caravanners, campers etc very well. Personally, I would not be keen for the club to risk funds without a strategy that will allow a good return on investment. Additionally, to provide a facility exclusively for the use of a sector of the members can only lead to a divisive club. The club has been experimenting with different ideas to ensure the club is sustainable for the future. The fact that the club does not meet all members expectations all of the time does not mean that it's thinking is old fashioned. The club did not appear by accident, has not improved overall by accident and does not cater by accident for a huge number of members. The club and its members are not responsible for developing a new network of little synergy with the existing sites and CL network. There is perhaps an incredible opportunity for those that want Aires to do what the club did originally years ago and form themselves into a group with common interests and develop their own network?
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Spot on, DaveT. 👏🏻👏🏻
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Yes a full +1 DaveT.
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DaveT
I think you have summed up the current situation rather well. The way some people talk almost suggests the Club have a monopoly on the provision of camping pitches which is clearly not the case by a country mile. Having said that I also can't see other established players changing how they do things either. OK we have seen an expansion of local authorities making parking provision, although even that is in it's early days. There seems to be a lot of pub provision but only usually as a parking place with no filling or emptying points. From the YouTube video posted yesterday with the DG talking about the Club and with membership seemingly still growing there are few pointers that the Club currently is not meeting member needs. OK nothing lasts for ever and if there was a substantial fall in membership which could be identified us disaffection from motorhome owning members then perhaps a change of course might happen. Until that happens I suspect the status quo will remain?
David
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Another in agreement here. There is room for another organisation to provide something less formal than what both Clubs offer, but of course there’s the funding of such sites to think about.
We were campervanners first, and utilised a lot of different site options when we first started, back in the 1980’s. We did join the Club, but it was just another choice amongst many. We used a few more Club Sites when we got a caravan, but still not exclusively. CLs became our preferred option. Moving back to a small MH and utilising all those options, plus even more, was rather easy for us. We quickly latched onto the Britstop network for a year, and used a good few options on there for one, two night stays, mixing in some Aires, legal stopovers, and still using CLs, the no facility Club Sites for refilling water, etc…. when needed. It’s still a very good value for money method of touring, if it’s what you like doing. It’s quite surprising how nice staying at some pubs can be, particularly if the landlords are touring fans themselves, some do the extra mile to make you welcome, and some do have extras above just a parking space. Not all pubs either, we have used a couple of cycling shops/cafes that provide a nice stopover, plus the 7Stanes Forestry Sites up in Scotland.
The Club is good at providing what the bulk of its Membership needs, there’s scope for others to provide alternatives.0 -
The recent DG interview highlights that a majority of members are now Motorhome/campervans. He also highlighted a trend towards more self contained vans. Previously the CAMC has identified that motorhomers spend fewer nights on a site, moving on more frequently. If the club is to retain its market share it has to take all these things into account, moving forward. This does not necessarily mean developing Aires but does mean accelerating the roll out of metered/optional ehu. It disappoints me that so many new CLs are still including electricity in their prices. Perhaps the club will facilitate the sort of “ drop and fill” facility that the CCC does on many of their club sites.
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I think the majority of those who use Club Sites with a MH will still want to plug into electrics. For many, it will simply be a change of outfit perhaps, rather than a change in how they tour. But it would be good to have at least a few pitches on Club Sites that are off grid/metered, with a decent discount for not plugging in. Guessing this years AGM might reveal a bit more as to how the trials have gone.
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Yes MHs owners do spend less time on site and move more than caravans, but they are still using club sites very possibly from one to another and still use EHU when they do, so why anything needs to change just based on how long the stay on site is beyond me - they appear to be pectfly happy to pay and use club sites as they are. If there was something that showed MHs weren't using club sites that would be another matter.
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From what the DG was saying in the video it looks as if at some point in the (near) future metering will be the standard way of charging for electricity. I suspect ( and what he hinted at) was the experiment of metering at one site had not proved as smooth as they would like. He said they needed a system where you could just scan a card rather than having Apps or websites to add credit to. I assume once they have worked that out, metering will become a standard facility on all Club sites? This has been one of the things that many motorhomers have been calling for as many can be self sufficient without hooking up. So quite a serious nod towards motorhoming. It would make pitches a bit cheaper and of course caravanners could also take advantage depending on their set up.
David
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I think the key words in your post are “a bit cheaper”. Whatever the Club does, whatever route it goes down, it will still retain those visitors, who tour primarily via Club Sites, regardless of their outfit . But it might not be enough off the nightly pitch fees to attract those who mix things up more.
For example, if the nightly fee is £35 a night, but £5 off for not hooking up, £30 is not a bad Club Site nightly fee. But we are currently using CLs and CS sites that offer quality loos and showers, no hook up, for £15 per night. So it’s unlikely to tempt us back.
I don’t blame the Club, the fees are what they are, and there are huge overheads to be covered, but a lot of new MH/campervan owners, those who might be holidaying more in UK, those who have no background history of the Club, will simply look at what gives the best value for money. Some will be more than happy to have the good quality sites the Club offers as their touring base, others mix it up more. We have family and friends who tour and no matter what we tell them about Club Sites, they are simply not tempted to become Members. Difficult long term for the Club possibly🤔
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As a motorhomer, if the pitch has electricity as part of the fee, we hook up and save on our gas. If there is a fixed amount with fee and then metering, we will hook up and use a limited amount of electricity, eg use the electric kettle rather than gas. When comparing the price of sites/pitches with no hook up compared to those with hook up it is almost invariably cheaper to have no hook up and use gas, especially as we have refillable tanks. But, and I emphasise this, if we use a site with electricity automatically included, we will use it. This is ONE of the reasons why you see so many motorhomes on hook up on CAMC sites. That and many are still very fearful of ditching the orange cable! (Other colours are available)
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I met a lady at a party - respectable lady and respectable party - who told me about motorhoming. She was vey emphatic when she said “ I hate campsites”, so I asked her why.She never mentioned electricity, but in short she said her touring was spur of the moment, she was not willing to reserve places in advance, nor pay on arrival when she didn’t know how long she would stay, but above all she objected to being told what time she was allowed to arrive and by what time she was told to leave. If she wanted to arrive in a morning or leave in an evening she would. And in any case she said for her many campsites were simply in the wrong place. An interesting lady - I liked her style.
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