What Would a UK Club Type Aire Look Like
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But is it a "problem", WN, and if so, what do you think CAMC could do which wouldn’t disadvantage some sectors of the membership? It’s a puzzle for sure at the present time.
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I think it will become a problem TW.
None of the 40y.o. families that I know, relatives, friends children, neighbours etc have expressed the slightest interest in owning a caravan. Several of them know that we have bought a new Campervan and some have been for a nosey. Nobody wanted to look inside our caravan, stored at home and when speaking to them nobody had any intention of taking up towing, some due to licensing restrictions, others because it was probably considered old fashioned. OK, it's a small sample but one that I think will resonate with a few members on here. Some did express an interest in buying a campervan though
The club has already seen motorhome ownership members increasing and surpassing caravan ownership. It's not likely to be reversed. So the club may not view it as a problem but I do think they will have to close a few full fat sites and concentrate their efforts on alternatives. They have already dipped their toes into Glamping and Pods so it's only a matte of time until they address this issue.
We'll probably still be using CLs and the like so it won't be a problem for us.
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Closing full fat sites? The ones that are currently quite full of MHs already? Not sure what a full fat sites is but these I used recently with HS and SP and one was 70% MH and the other evens. The club is attracting MHs onto its sites, and attracting new MH members. Now to me that shows its what these MH owners want.
Whereas the simple non facility sites that it seems to me are what exactly is being asked for here have been closed. Why because - no one is using them. If anything is to close it will be these types of sites and/or they will be upgraded.
There are no doubt differences in the way MHers want to tour. Some like traditional sites with EHU, facilities, and even SP. One site we were at had 90% MHs on them for a good few nights (standard pitches were going empty). While others like to use simpler sites or aires, or even not at all. No one is forced to use a club site.There are we have told many such simpler sites so why does it have to be a club site, and why should club sites change if they are already getting lots of MHs on already. Yes there are, will be more MH owners in the club, but these join the club and then use club sites. It maybe difficult for some to understand but perhaps, maybe, theses MHs like using club sites?
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Just a had a look at the last ten reviews of traditional (full fat?) club sites, one MH had left three of different sites so just counted them once. Out of ten it was an even split, or counting the same MH - 7 MH and 5 caravans. Surely if what is written is true here then the club shouldn't attracting so many MHs?
Apart from one they were all glowing, and the was that wasn't it was more to do with dog issues than being a MH.
I like to read the reviews and just a snapshot but I've never started to notice if it was a MH or caravan but will start now. I can't recall a review that was negative due to being a MH and not being catered for in some way?
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I think, WN, that there is an aura of yearning for the big blue yonder with most folk in regard to campervans/motorhomes so they look at vans and dream. People often seem to think they can take off on the open road and stop wherever they fancy. You’ve probably noticed the number of contestants on TV game shows who want to buy a camper so they can set off for the NC500 or wherever. You and I know that the reality is quite different.
As for a "problem", I don’t see it as such. Yes, there are changes afoot in the LV world but CAMC has already demonstrated it’s capable of forward thinking by introducing pods and cabins so I’ve no doubt they will be thinking about more changes to accommodate the varying nature of units on site while also catering for the more traditional membership. They may decide to maintain the status quo while leaving sire provision to others or they may make changes we can’t guess at. Time will tell but evolvement is always with us.
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"sire". Darned auto correction! Aire, aire, aire. 🙄
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Shall we start all over again? 😀
The reasons of inequality are still there.
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+1 An expensive experiment?
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Let's be honest, CT's history on recent club products has not been good. When the club announced Guided UK Tours, CT's response was it was too expensive, you could do the tour better yourself and who would spend money on that. What actually happened was that the first year's tours sold out and now more tours are being added. When the club announced Experience Freedom, CT's response was, too expensive, who was it aimed at, taking away touring pitches. What actually happened was the trial was so successful more EF units are being rolled out on the club network and so many more new members that Experience Freedom now has it's own membership. I'm glad that the clubs management is forward looking and keeping the club relevant for future members and current members.
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You’re no doubt correct. I don’t think I made any input to the guided tours subject as I had no interest in it but I’ve always thought the self catering side was a good move and that it demonstrated willingness to change and move forward with the times.
I’m sure you’ve noticed there are some folk who will always find fault with CAMC whatever is suggested but I try to be open minded and judge each issue on its merits. At present I can see very little in favour of CAMC aires so it gets a 👎🏻 from me but who knows how things might change and throw a different light on the subject in future? As I said, open minded.
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I actually supported all those, but the club did its homework and it was correct. However I can't find any recent AGM statement about providing aires. The one I could find was from 2021 when asked about aire type provision the answer was:
People use the Club in many different ways. We have a number of non-facility sites across the network which provide these kinds of stays and we are exploring what other options may be available and viable at other sites. The Club's extensive CL network can help too for those who prefer a smaller site at a lower cost.
I could not find anything further in 2022 nor in 2023 although I do recall something about a trial. This has never happened (unless someone can help) so I assume the club has done its homework and it is not viable? As well as being divisive and not inclusive.
Also where do you get this about EF having their own 'membership'? It sort of does. If you click on the EF 'membership' tab you'll see it's the same price as club membership and as a club member you are automatically an EF member. You do not need to be a EF member to use their cabins and it only offers a 10% off prices (just like club members). While you'll logged in to CT go to the EF and try and join, you'll find you're already a member.
As been posted from page 1, others can and do provide these aires, use them.
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I missed the EF membership bit. GE, as I said the other day, it is CAMC membership via an alternative route but with no difference in the terms of membership.
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What actually happened was the trial was so successful more EF units are being rolled out on the club network and so many more new members that Experience Freedom now has it's own membership.
It may have been successful when it was first rolled out but by the looks of the discounts that are now being offer for stays in the "static" facilities they are no longer attracting the huge numbers required to make them a money making enterprise.
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EF discounts are very good compared with those offered for pitches. So much so, next time our friends use a glamping pod, we will do the same, as we paid more than they did per night on a pitch at empty Cayton Bay.
I don’t think the Club will provide Aire type pitches. There are lots out there doing it already at a far better VFM price. No Membership required. The Club will do what it does best for the majority of its Members, regardless of what they tour in.
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I think the Club will know when to change, although on past experience it could encounter hostility from some sections of the membership? The name change springs to mind but in terms of encouraging a wider membership from motorhomes an undoubted success? Likewise I suspect Experience Freedom will grow in importance but I am pretty sure they won't invest unless they see a reasonable return and I don't think that will come overnight. Be interesting to know whether Experience Freedom is being financed separately from campsites generally. I was a bit puzzled by the separate membership for Experience Freedom as I don't know whether it works both ways as the touring membership? When I tried to look at one of the options having been logged in via the touring membership I was a bit confused as I seem to have to log in again. Perhaps an easy fix. We hope to have a try at Experience Freedom, perhaps in September so if we do I will report back.
David
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If you are thinking of using EF, keep your Membership DK, it will get you the discounts and offers. The check in times are similar to cottages, 3pm, so depending on how far you are travelling, sorting out something to do before arrival is a good way of filling a travel day. It’s sort of a bit like MHing, doing something to fill the arrival day, and to make the most of an early departure. Catering is basic, microwave and a kettle, BBQ if it’s your thing and weather is good, but we shared a three course Indian with our friends. M&S meal deals😁 Top tip…..take your own pillows (those provided get flattened by fold up beds) and in Winter, you might need to take an extra heater. Bathrooms are nice. Good VFM if you can get a deal. Usually away from rest of Site, so tend to be quiet. Car parking might be away from pods, so a luggage trolley might be useful, depending upon chosen site.
(sorry to go off topic)
Edi, there might be a small hob in kitchen🤔
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It would cost nothing to introduce "Quickstops" which I pointed out earlier in this thread. I said
"These are operated by some Scandinavian sites, notably in Denmark, whereby for a dicounted pitch price for the night you have to arrive after a set time and leave the next day before a set time. This is used by motorhomeres and caravaners alike. I have used it but didn't much care for the long days it made on the road. If i recall correctly, arrival was after 9pm and departure before 10am. better for me and I suspect most would be arrival after 4pm departure before 10am."
These would be even better if there was the option to take electricity or not or if pitches were metered, the latter is on the way. This would be about the closest the Club could get to an Aire using the existing facilities.
peedee
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Everything has a cost to the operator/seller, PD.
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Of course it would cost something, you're offering a discount and that is lost income and also paid for by those who arrive earlier. Also extra staff hours for after 9pm.
Even using your proposed hours, many outfits arrive after 4 (especially on a weekend) and depart early so if implemented it's just lost income. 4pm to 10am is in many cases a popular time frame already, why discount it? I would only discount something if it isn't selling well? But as others have pointed out plenty of others who provide this.
As to non EHU, and non facilities that's proved not to sell.
As with metering it's a long way off if at all.
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I suppose with an ANPR site like Lady Margaret’s Park and any future ones, it would be possible to offer any unused pitches at a discounted rate bookable after 4pm for arrival before 9pm on a one night only basis. No need for an early departure, just use the normal before 12pm. They would have to get there system working in real time though, as currently you need to have automatic payment set up or pay at least 24 hours before.
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I’ve said for a long time that seriously discounted pitches, only available after a certain time of day would be a good idea. After 6pm would be sensible. Surely there’s merit in having some income from a pitch (£15?, no hook up) rather than letting it stand empty, particularly if the main barrier is just the mindset of certain other Members? No reason why it cannot apply to all outfits. And I don’t think it would be any problem at all if pitches were metered. There’s no infrastructure changes, no staffing costs involved at all. Members can check online what’s available before trying, staff simply deal with late arrivals as they do now.
I have walked into pub B&Bs in the past and asked how much for a room early evening. If the price hasn’t suited, I have gone back an hour later and asked again, pointing out that any income is better than none, and got seriously discounted prices. It’s the other side of dynamic pricing. Club gets something, a Member gets something. Anything with a finite date can be discounted, and there’s usually a market. It’s just basic selling. Won’t suit many, but it will suit some.
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I must apologise if anyone might think my comment about “certain Members” appears personal. It isn’t, it’s general. I had a half hour break between typing my two paragraphs above, and in that time a few more posts were made. I was actually following on from PD’s Quickstops post, not later ones, but didn’t get chance to see later posts.
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Thank you.
They could do that (offer MH stops) some do but the majority don't. Then they complain that folk are dumping illegally. While I don't agree with that I can understand how desperate some get. I was once on a CL just off the NC 500 route where the owners was telling me they often got MHs wanting to come in and do a 'service' she thought it was the height of cheek. I laughed and said so charge them a tenner. As the CL was only £14 a night she thought that was a cheek. You can't win with some folk.
We've done the NC 500 a few times but always booked in advance as I know how busy it can get. The reports this year are very mixed, with site owners claiming they have empty pitches and MH owners complaining sites are full and they can't find anywhere to park up. 🤷
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They would have to get there system working in real time though, as currently you need to have automatic payment set up or pay at least 24 hours
Surely availability is in realtime? However it would be nice to see a figure once a certain level of bookings have been reached rather than just "Low." I don't see why any changes to the payment system need be made other than if you were booking on the day you would have to pay in full. What happens now if you book the same day as arrival? It would be good to see a trial system introduced with what is available now and if it proves sucessful it can always be fine tuned with time.
As for costs of introducing such a system, I am struggling to see where there are any. Maybe those who say there are can enlighten me?
peedee
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Availability I would assume is. However, to use the automatic ANPR check in, you either need to opt for automatic payment on the morning before or pay the final amount manually 24 hours before.
I was suggesting offering discounted pitches late in the day at ANPR sites, as it wouldn’t involve the wardens in any extra work. Except for Friday I’ve not seen many looking for pitches after 6pm as could be the case if late discounts were on offer.
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The QuickStop idea is very popular in Scandinavia, we saw a lot of sites offering it when we toured there, particularly in Sweden. Sites mainly set their own conditions, times such as arrival after 8pm, departure by 9am, some offered EHU and access to facilities in the price, others offered them as an option. All this was available to caravans as well as MHs. Prices varied from £10-£20 per night.
We also came across, and used, some sites in Austria where there were areas just outside the reception area for overnight stays, again open to both caravans and MHs, with EHU and access to facilities. Ideal for a one night stop.
If a caravanner, the car had to be parked in the designated site parking opposite, not right next to the caravan. The cost was about half the cost of a pitch on the main site. Saw something similar in Germany too.
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I’ve never actually tried to book and pay for one on the same day, except by paying at the site office. If there was significant take up, arrivals up to 9pm would involve the wardens in extra work and therefore would most likely result in extra costs. There is a big difference in just sorting a few late arrivals between 6 and 8 and the many that might result from such a discount scheme.
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Reception normally closes at 5p.m.the deadline on arrivals is currently 8p.m. I would have though site managers are already paid to work up to 8.p.m? Looking at the FAQ about ANPR here is what it says about booking on the day:
We encourage everyone to book in advance. However if you arrive on site without an existing booking, please make a booking on the Club website or app and use the intercom for the sites staff to check you in once your booking has been verified. The fast check-in system does not currently integrate with bookings made on the day of arrival. So if you arrive late you risk not being able to enter the Club Campsite.
Late I assume means later that 8p.m. Looks like the integration with the booking system is one to fix sooner rather than later.
peedee
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