Observations of Overseas Site Reviews
I like to have scroll through the site reviews, both UK and Overseas. On balance the reviews of Overseas Sites tend to lean towards the negative. I have been to quite a few of the sites mentioned in said reviews. I wonder if its a matter of perception? Noise and pitch space and pitch location seem to be the main concerns. Admittedly 30 odd years ago we did book sites via the Club for the first couple of trips until we plucked up courage to go it alone. I imagine that it is relative newcomers that tend to book and I wondering if they are trying to compare sites in Europe with sites at home?
David
Comments
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I think you could be right David.
Over the last 18mths we met quite a few 'Newbies' over there and they say the same thing, "this is not like the sites at home"
They are not used to the hedges around the pitches, they like that. What they don't like is that every inch of the pitch can and often is full of pieces of camping paraphernalia.
They are not comfortable with no spacing between pitches. They are not comfortable with mixed facilities blocks or the fact that French sites often have no toilet seat or paper.
Often if they have booked through the club they expect to get the best pitch on the site, (they don't get that) what they get is often a cramped pitch under trees and in a not so nice part of the site.
Once they have chatted to the well travelled amongst us and been give a few tips they abandon the club bookings and do their own thing. They find that if they want that extra space they can have it, if they want the best pitch they can have that too at a small cost.
What they do like is the ability to turn up at anytime and be allowed into the site. They like having a restaurant and take away on site, a shop and lets not forget the swimming pool. Add to that, they can stay for as long or short as they want and they pay as they leave. They like the prices.
So far I've not met anyone who says they want to go home back to the UK prices and rules.
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Returning to motorhoming after a couple of years break and a new vehicle we stayed at the Club site at Morton-in-Marsh as a “shake-down” prior to setting off for France. Friendly welcome, nice serviced pitch with a bit of a hedge (but other pitches were all ligned up and regimented), superb sanitary bloc BUT £45 per night out of season!! Compared with many sites in France - hedged, large pitch with tap and drain but average sanitation but acceptable, maximum ACSI rate 25 euros per night. The problem is that the Clubs sites set an impossible and somewhat artificial standard.
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I don't take too much notice of what reviews say of sites after all much of it can be subjective and a site is just somewhere to park up while visiting local attractions. I am much more interested in the objective reviews, nearest pub/eatery, whats within walking/biking distance, how far to so and so etc. Usually I couple all that with views from Google Maps.
peedee
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I have just returned from 8 weeks into mainland Europe, and reviews are not high on my list of things to read, but of high interest is places where we can cycle. I only stopped at one site I could liken to the CAMC at home where it was slightly 'clinical' and that was in Maribor, Slovenia. All the other 13 sites in 6 countries were a good mixture from enclosed hedging/open ground/shaded and park how and where you like.
Also if people are going to state ACSI rates, then mention the additional tourist tax that is anything upwards of €2 per night, and some charge an additional recycling rate.
We also never prebooked a site as we decided on the direction the day before leaving each site.
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I think you're mostly right in your assumptions David. The ones that are repeat bookers tend to want everything done for them or they're frightened of going "off piste".
We've never used the club booking system for overseas sites. We did, one year, receive the vouchers provided in a ferry deal but we actually never got around to using those either.
With regard to reviews we only ever take notice if a site has repeat condemnation of something like the toilet or sanitary block.
We've tended to go our own way and done research online before arriving at sites that we definitely want to use but most times wing it. We have left sites after arriving and before pitching up but there aren't that many that we wouldn't visit again if we had our time over.
I think Tammy has described the first timer rather well. A lot of them go with their mind shut to the fact it's NOT the CAMC.
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I suppose the overseas reviews on this website are for just sites where this club makes reservations. Is that right?
As we only went to one of those sites in 40+ years touring overseas I never paid any attention to them, but I read and wrote lots of reviews on other websites about simpler campsites that we visited. Having looked back just now at the ones I wrote it seems that no one else admits to going to some of those sites in all that time.
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ET
Yes, what we used to call the ABS service.
When we first went abroad it was long before the internet so apart from the Club's European Guides there was little information out there at hand. Perhaps En Route and a few of the caravanning magazines but not much. So it was understandable back then that members would see the Overseas Touring booking system as an extension of Club sites. Probably also worth pointing out that back them the majority of UK Club sites were more "rustic" than they are now so the difference perhaps wasn't so great?
Move forward nearly 40 years everything is so much different. Information everywhere. The opportunity to discuss the options everywhere but clearly there are those that prefer the comfort of booking via the Club. One does wonder how much research they have done outside the club to decide where to go. If you are going to judge sites abroad on the basis of a fully serviced hardstanding UK Club site it will be very surprised at the difference. It is also clear, I think TG mentioned this, that just because you book via the Club, doesn't mean you will get the best pitches on site. Been there and done that! Perhaps the problem is that if you have never been abroad its probably difficult to imagine what a site in a different country is like until you get there, especially one not so controlled by "rules". Last comment doesn't apply to Germany
David
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Actually David, just thinking back to our last sortie into Germany, and of the 8 sites we stayed at 7 of them told us to park wherever we wanted in a specific area and the other one was just a 1 night stopover in a designated area. Can't remember many other rules beyond the common sense ones. Maybe your comment was tongue in cheek.
I did find the Dutch, who have a laissez-faire reputation, to be more controlling but they are restricted by space most of the time.
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DK, you ask about overseas site reviews.
As you and I know there are two sorts of overseas visitors - some want a destination site where they can stay for a fortnight then turn round and come home. They agonise about the particular choice of campsite - it really matters to them- if they are going to Italy they research all the possible sites there before they book. The Club helps them by offering a selection and making a reservation and in return they write the sort of review you are seeing. Probably critical.The second group says when we are in Italy let’s go and have a look at the Gran Paradiso national park and then go and see if we can find the Stupinigi Palace, and then let the kids go climb up the leaning tower of Pisa. Now the site at Pisa is crowded, cramped, hot and dusty - and that doesn’t matter to them one bit. It’s close to the tower, it’s just somewhere to sleep, they are only staying a couple of nights and then going on somewhere else. The Club hasn’t booked that site for them and they don’t bother to write a review on here. They come home saying they found Italy fascinating.
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- Here is a post from a newcomer asking about sites in the South of France on another forum:
"I'm looking for decent campsites in the South of France, ideally near the coast. All the sites I seem to be finding seem to be the French equivalent of Parkdean / Haven with a massive emphasis on rentals and hazy details about the camping pitches. So far I've looked on UKcampsite and CC&C site, to no avail. I'm looking for a site ideally with fully serviced pitches, or at least EHU and a toilet block but ideally without noisy bars and club houses. I just can't seem to find what I'm looking for. Am I looking in the wrong places? Any ideas?"
There are lots of sites on UKCS which fit his criteria, but despite all the reviews he didn't seem to be able to find what he wanted. Lots of us on the other forum tried to give advice but he then decided that 'The South of France' was too far to go during a two week holiday and turned his attention to 'The Loire'.
It's really hard to advise complete newcomers about just how different French sites are to those in the UK. I once had a quite nasty message from someone when I gave advice about his 'South of France' holiday saying 'You have ruined a family holiday and we are never going back to the South France again......' I'm not sure what he was expecting to find but obviously the sites I recommended didn't meet his preconceptions. On the other hand forty four years ago we found French sites met and exceeded our expectations so much that we now store our caravan in France, and with the exception of a very few odd occasions haven't used UK sites in years!1 -
I suspect the big difference is that many of the top UK sites, including Club site, have undergone considerable investment in recent years and if you are an experienced UK tourer but the Continent is new to you your expectations are likely to be challenged as sites in Europe generally have not had the same level of investment beyond the addition of more statics. Having said that there was a certain excitement about European sites being different when we first started to go. If you found a decent little Municipal for 4/5 euros a night (or the FF equivalent) then it made the holiday!!!
David
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Our last good municipal find was was one for just 6 euros including hook-up but that was some years ago. However, there are still bargains and you can hardly complain about this site with a lovely swimming pool. Camping Millau Plage - 13 euros per night including hook-up, two adults, car and caravan (and one pet if you have one). The ACSI Card is accepted there between 1st April to 5th July and then 24th August to 27th October this year! It's in a lovely setting alongside the river Tarn, with a view of the Puncho d'Aghast where paragliders take off every dry day, a few miles to the beautiful Gorges du Tarn, Jonte and Dourbie.
There are many other sites in the ACSI scheme for just 13 euros - today that is just £10.92! In France there are 32, in Spain 5, Portugal 1, Italy 1 and the Netherlands 1.1 -
I find few people can write an objective review on anything, whether it is a caravan site or a product bought on Amazon. I also have limited sympathy for caravanners (or anyone else) travelling abroad the first time and complaining about facilities or other aspects not being acceptable. There is an overwhelming amount of info on the internet social media to source from seasoned travellers that people seem too lazy to research. Probably too busy following the latest exploits of some C class TV nonentity to spend time on what should matter. The site we are currently on near Lake Constance (Gutshof) was booked through the club because after extensive searching, it met our criteria. Very often however we do not and with only one exception have we ever had a duff site ‘over there’. The reviews of Gutshof are mixed but our take is very positive and will leave such a review in due course.
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Just in case people have not rushed to the the overseas reviews I should add there are positive reviews as well. It's true of UK reviews as well that if there is something that irks someone its likely to be the main content of their review. On some forums when you add a review you have to go through a list of responses to questions rather than just starting off with the negative.
David
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A few years ago our friends came away with us in their MH. It was their first time taking it to France and as such they were a bit apprehensive.
The first site we stayed on was in Angers, it was a lovely site (now owned by camping Huttopia) we did pitch next to each other and they found it a bit strange to have hedges on 3 sides and a gravel strip at the front of the pitch (for the MH wheels in bad weather). The facilities block was a mixed one so that was a bit of a surprise to. However they took it all in their stride.
We did many sites over that 6 weeks, I think they were all different in some way. One of the comments from out friends was that the sites themselves were a holiday as they were all different not just row upon row of vans. The really liked the fact that they could have a meal on site and that it was nice. The pools for our female friend made the holiday as she loves to swim.
Now 2 years on and they have been back to France again, twice on their own and are getting more adventurous, even trying out some of the CCP Aires. They say it has changed the way they holiday in the UK now as well. No longer do they automatically book this clubs sites they now look around for something more interesting and different.
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We hosted a 'First Timers in France' a few years ago (for the Caravan Club as it was then). It was noticeable that the majority of people were so used to Caravan Club sites, that they just couldn't get their head around pitching any which way! However, many of them have gone on to tour more extensively, and one couple have been to Morocco and Turkey since their first tentative steps into Europe. I bet reviews of sites in those countries make interesting reading.
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Val
Not sure if you have heard of them but the Roaming Radfords have a YouTube channel where they post stories of their travels. They have been to Morocco and I got the impression they were quite impressed. OK the sites are different by European standards and it seems very good value. Also the people running them seem very friendly. I have been to Casablanca but that was on a cruise so probably doesn't count but you get an impression of the difference between the well off areas and the less so but everyone has a satellite dish!!! Years ago there used to be someone on one of the forums who used to tow his caravan with a red Volvo and he went to Morocco several times and used to post his blogs with photos of his trips.
Going back to France I noticed that one of the Castel sites had a couple of poor reviews. Going back in years these were always considered the "bees knees" Having said that some were better than others and apart from being in the grounds of a Chateaux they could be somewhat rustic. Perhaps the Club should promote the idea of Vive la Difference rather than giving the idea they have partnered with sites that meet Club standards?
David
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I think it's a shame, as you say, that the Club don't do more to widen knowledge about European travel. The group we hosted had very little background knowledge about what to expect. I think the Overseas Travel Section could still do a great deal to prepare newcomers to caravanning in Europe about the kind of things they might expect to find, instead of making their Overseas sites sound as if they are just Club sites in a hotter country.
I remember in the early days of Club Together there was definitely a 'Them and Us mentality'. Two different viewpoints about travelling 'Over There', the quality (or otherwise) of overseas sites, and quite angry words could be exchanged. Even now there are a number of posts in this part of the forum where Moderators have their work cut out to keep a post 'on track'. The Club could have done a lot to allay some of those misconceptions by members by being much more open about what one might expect to find on European countries - which as we know can vary from country to country, as well as site to site.
I'm interested to know which of the Les Castels sites has poor reviews. I remember the long-ago days of two particular members of that group of site owners 'clubbing together' to get the Camping Cheques scheme off the ground. They put in some really hard 'lobbying' to persuade other Les Castels site owners to join and offer large discounts on dates when they wouldn't expect the sites to be full. I also remember what a success Camping Cheques was in the early days with really discounted rates in low season on Les Castels sites. Then commercial interests took over, less high quality sites joined, the business was taken over by a faceless group of financiers and the scheme declined. Do I see a any parallell with what's happening with the CAMC - now seeming not so much a 'Club' for members, with their interests and needs at heart, but a commercial interest, with finance at the heart?3 -
Val
It was Le Château de Leychoisier which has received several very negative reviews. In answer to one of the reviews the Club tried to justify its inclusion as a bookable site. There was a more positive review but even that acknowledged there were shortcomings but as they had been using it for several years they were willing to overlook the short comings. We have stayed on some wonderful Castel sites but we have also stayed on a couple that weren't that good. What has changed over the years is the expectations of the quality of facilities you now get at home and clearly people expect that to be the same overseas especially when Castel sites are promoted as being amongst the best available rather than sites set in the grounds of historic Château.
David
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Some overseas site reviews reveal more about the person who wrote them than about the site itself.
Leychoisier has a clutch of reviews on UKCampsite and there are scarcely any critical comments about it there
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Friends staying with us were 'warned off' Leychoisier by a Dutchman on the next pitch at another campsite, and stayed further north at a municipal site in Nantiat, which they loved and stayed for two nights.. This has now become a 'Camping Mon Village' and open all year if you are a self-contained motorhome, The Sanitaires are open 01/04/2024 until 31/10/2024.
Most of the reviews of Leychoisier on the Dutch Camping Club (ACSI) website reflect those written by members here.0 -
If Club members are going to include “No English spoken” as one of their criticisms of an overseas campsite then perhaps the Club should vet them before they let them book.
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I can imagine a lot of French people might take exception to having an iPhone thrust in their face with a language App on it
When we first started going to France I spent a couple of years going to night school to get a basic understanding. I would not claim to be able to speak French but feel competent enough to handle day to day requirements. Perhaps so many people are used to package holidays where everyone speaks English they think everyone should do the same?
David
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I think it depends on the country and what little effort you make. When we were in Denmark some years ago, we learnt please and thank you, but were frequently told “no, let us practice our English”. Surely people don’t thrust phone in peoples faces. Google translate is becoming a widely used facility but it is only polite to try and ask to use it first. As for learning another language, I did French at school, failed my exams twice (despite passing everything else). Have tried various other ways of learning from cassette tapes to evening classes to online systems. I can manage a bit of translation from written material but spoken French totally defeats me. I can’t copy speech, and I just don’t hear the words. I also can’t identify birds by their song and I can’t sing.
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I actually think it's quite insulting to the host country not to learn at least a few basics - please, thank you, hello etc. To expect everyone to speak English - although most do - is arrogant in the extreme. It just reflects that view of the UK being somehow exceptional rather than a middle ranking smallish country.
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