Prices too high or falling interest in camping
I am interested to hear people's thoughts on the, in my opinion, ridiculous increase in site fees. I am currently sitting in Thetford Forest site with I estimate about 20% capacity taken. We arrived at the first opening date earlier in the year for our previous visit here and again very low take up. Previous years it has been full on that date. Talking to other members, often unprompted the discussion is all about site fees. The cunning plan to initially give prices based on single occupancy when searching sites has been noticed. You used to price on assumption of couples. Please don't say you are being inclusive as still the majority are families or couples. Another excuse being peddled is the pandemic effect. Sorry, not buying it. I and my family are moving more and more to CL sites with CMC and CCC. I understand the issue about making ends meet, but charging more is pushing members away. Surely more stays at a reasonable price equals more income. I have been a member for 40 years so I feel a loyalty to the club but that us being stretched. To prove my point I would direct you all to the relentless offers of discounts for various dates and sites. This never used to happen. Plus, to access these discounts is like taking a mensa test to match dates to sites etc. I welcome any views please.
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I think the prices of all club sites is high and we very rarely use them. No facility sites like Thetford, which we like, used to be one price all season, roughly the price of an average CL. Last time we looked, much more expensive. Like you, mainly use CLs, CSs and ccc sites with age discount.
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The 'From' price for pitch + 1 adult is accurate and surely the word 'from' tells you it is the lowest price? I don’t see any "cunning plan".
As for prices, have you noticed there’s a sharp rise in the cost of living? Absolutely everything is costing more so it’s to be expected that site fees will be dearer. Take a look at commercial/privately owned sites and you will see their prices are up too. Some might be cheaper than both clubs off peak but sky high in peak season. Even CLs are much more expensive than they used to be. I'm not sure that lowish occupancy mid-May during term time and between bank holidays is unusual.
Have you noticed the rocketing prices of new caravans and motorhomes? Another example of soaring prices and it’s my contention that someone affording a current offering - and many are buying them - shouldn’t really have much trouble paying to use it.
The discounts and offers on site fees are there to be taken advantage of. Go for it!
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Mark, Your headline asks about a possible falling interest in camping. RyanAir recently announced profits increased to 1.6 billion pounds. Does that give you a clue what people are doing and where they are going instead of visiting UK campsites.
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Site fees at both clubs are rather expensive. Some commercial sites cost more and some cost less.
We were undertaking a tour of Scotland earlier in the month and had booked all of the sites, usually staying for a coupleof nights at each. At three commercial sites we had to pay the full balance of site fees a week in advance. Unfortunately, my wife developed a problem with her back and we had to abort our trip. Obviously, I informed the sites and knew that I would not get any refund at two of the sites. Amother site re-imbursed the full fees, including the original deposit, even though I had to cancel four days prior to our scheduled arrival.
With a CCC site I obviously lost the deposit but that was all. The same would have been true with CAMC.
It is better only losing a deposit rather than the whole amount, especially if the stay is for a longer period. Some people would be unwillingto pay the full amount before arriving and therefore would be happier using Club sites. It is certainly something to consider.
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You're quoting one site, but I can't get a full week (the longest is two days) on six sites for up to August. These are on SP where the cost is even higher and only slightly better availability on standard pitches. The one for next week I finally managed to get on due to looking for a cancellation to make a longer stay.
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Mark
I assume you are not particularly talking about Thetford Forest as that site, at an average price of £26 a night in June, for two people, is very good value even compared to CL's many of which are pushing £25 a night? For some reason there is a lot of confusion about the way the Club shows prices for sites, you only have to look at Facebook groups! In my forty odd years of membership the Club have always priced per person. What seems to cause the confusion is that the Club quote and promote the minimum cost of a site which is pitch fee plus one person. It wouldn't change anything but would it be better that the Club did away with quoting the minimum price? Even if you did that it wouldn't change how the booking system looked as that has to quote the minimum occupation price to which you add additional members of your party. I think why we have had so many offers with discounts is because the deposit system has been a bit too successful? Most of the offers require you to book in advance and at specific time frames. By doing that the Club have a clear view of future bookings, if everyone left it to the last minute it could cause problems.
On the bigger picture about the hobby, yes maybe we are seeing less interest or maybe moving back to the position we were in prior to Covid. There has certainly been a downward pressure on used prices since the turn of the year for both caravans and motorhomes with lots of discounting of the price of new vans. We do have to remember that the pricing of sites is just one element of the hobby cost.
David
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Club has developed a much more aggressive marketing policy this last few years, and utilises many well know marketing techniques, such as dynamic pricing, deposit schemes, rigorous terms and conditions, targeted “discount schemes”. None are particularly unusual within the holiday sector.
What is a bit more of a difficult swallow though, is that CAMC also takes in substantial funding via its Membership fees, which most other companies don’t take. You either go with this or you don’t.
A lot of CLs are now more expensive for single tourers, and you might not get the same value for money around certain provision. Everything has risen in price. Best way to tour more economically is to mix and match places to stay around a lot options, including CLs, THS, pub stops (with a MH) When we do longer tours, this is how we keep the nightly average price down. Club will charge whatever Members will be willing to pay nowadays, so you either embrace it, or you look at other options. The canny Member gets the Membership fees back via discount partnership deals.
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Do I think interest in camping is falling? Possibly with Club type sites, as a lot of Members, us included, are ageing, looking at other options, and it’s questionable whether or not families can afford to spend huge sums on a tow car/caravan or MH option, particularly if it’s just for school holidays and odd weekends. But other camping type options are out there, and second hand caravans seem to be doing ok. PVC’s and micro campers are very prevalent on a lot of sites, and you do see a lot of work going on with older, classic outfits.
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Whilst many of us share concerns that the rising site prices may create lower overall income, we would need to see the occupancy rates over time to validate that.
Once occupancy rates and/or income are falling, then the price setting needs to be looked at again. If income is still rising, then you can not blame any site or club rising their prices if the demand exists.
Whilst I only tour now with my wife, the extra cost per child would have impacted on my decision to start touring all those years ago.
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I do wonder if any of those commenting about high pitch prices ever look at other accommodation costs? Anyone tried getting a decent holiday cottage or guest house recently and noted the costs? And just because caravan sales are slowing doesn’t mean people are giving up caravanning. People who already have them will use them.
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The Club has reduced site prices this year but it is still wise to shop around, there are alternatives well worthwhile and often cheaper.
Some of the more expensive Club sites have been rather empty this year, at least the ones I have used, but if you look at the availability over the forthcoming Bank Holiday there are very few vacancies across the network. Those in employment seem not too bothered about the cost.
peedee
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I first heard about Dynamic Pricing some decades back in the context of foreign package holidays and flights. The explanation then was it provided a means of extracting maximum profit at any given moment in time according to supply and demand. I think this is still the case? Personally I don’t think the club are too aggressive in this pursuit but I still have some concerns for younger families who possibly are most detrimentally affected by its structure. I also don’t think that discounting offers helps those, like young families, who really need to plan in some advance. I guess many will have looked at pricing during the winter and will have already made their choices to suit their cloth.
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I suppose its the internet that has enabled dynamic pricing? If we go back to the time when we got all our information from printed brochures it was much more difficult to change the prices once published although in some instances "surcharges" were introduced! Such is progress?
As to young families and affordability I am sure some will struggle but I assume they have weighed up the alternative holiday choices and decided that camping is an acceptable choice for them? It perhaps should also be remembered, if we think back to when our own children were younger, that we generally had more limited holidays in terms of days away. Unlike when we retire when we are free to spend months away should we wish. If you spend 50 nights plus away each year rising costs will be more noticeable. As a result you have two choices, either spend less time away or seek out lower cost sites, both are probably a compromise?
David
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I must admit that I never used to think much about the cost of sites but now £50 night for a standard pitch seems all too common for a couple and a caravan. I don’t quite understand why the charge per person as we are all self catering and personally we actually never use the toilet blocks as we are self sufficient and don’t like communal facilities. Recently stayed at a hotel for £85 night including breakfast. We can and will vote with our wallets but that is not how a club should work. Perhaps the electric should be metered like some CLs do.
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I’m a bit puzzled why you would choose to pay for full facility sites when you don’t want the facilities🤷🏻♂️. Why not use CLs instead?
Metering electricity is being trialled on some club sites.
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I have been a regular critic of the price increases the club has introduced in recent times, the comments re other industries increasing prices is relevant to the clubs price structure but I do firmly believe that there is a lot of businesses taking advantage and screwing as much out of their customers as possible the club included.
The introduction of deposits and forfeiting the deposits and in some cases the full cost of the holiday if you have to cancel has put a lot of people off the club and booking in advance,
But I do see a chink of light, today having booked my next holiday a few months ago, 4 nights at Warwick followed by 21 days at Stover, I have been taken ill not ill enough to stop us going but ill enough to need urgent medical tests etc. This has resulted in me having to cancel two days at Warwick, I was very pleased to be told that even though it is only 5 days notice the cost to me will be a cancellation fee of £10, which will be reimbursed with a £10 voucher to be used towards any booking.
This has been a very pleasant surprise and is much appreciated by myself and my lovely wife, thankyou club for being understanding.
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I must admit that I never used to think much about the cost of sites but now £50 night for a standard pitch seems all too common for a couple and a caravan.
Not our experience. Our tour will use 10 CAMC sites, one of which is no facility and one where we have booked a service pitch. The average cost is £35.33 per night. Whilst a higher figure than previous years, the overall increase is inline with other price rises.
A seaside stay booked in August, also paying for one child, using a service pitch will cost £44.64.
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Interest is camping is certainly falling. The evidence is plain. Cornwall is summer holiday country par excellence, but Club sites here have abundant vacancies through July and August.
The small group of older people who post on here are sticking to their well established routines, but the great mass of British people are taking holidays in other ways.
Touring with a caravan is fading fast.
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I agree that touring is fading and I think that is partly the initial outlay cost. The caravan we bought in 2014 for £20000 is now £36000.
However I am not sure that is the only reason for empty pitches in Cornwall. Having gone to Cornwall every other year for many years we have decided not to go again.
The last time we went the standard of driving and the speed on the little narrow roads horrified us, all the car parks were full by ten o'clock, and the CL owner told us 'all the bl....y tourists coming to Cornwall bringing Covid' but not shutting his own site to cut down on numbers made us decide not to go again.
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Please don’t judge us all by one experience of a grumpy CL owner. Visitors are welcome and our economy depends largely on the tourist trade.
The Covid years saw the world and his wife visiting Cornwall. It was exceptionally busy and we could hardly set foot outside the door but normal times have resumed and the place is worth visiting again.
In general, local people drive confidently on our roads because they can judge the width of their vehicles and tend to get frustrated by visitors who crawl along hesitantly and, in many cases, don’t know how to reverse when needed.
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We’ve only ever used Marazion Club Site when visiting Cornwall. Never found the others particularly well located for our likes. We spent 20 years using a small family run camping site, until it was sold on, doubled in size, then was sold on again, and is now Glamping Pods. Quite a few campsites seem to have changed or gone now, it’s just change. Much like Cornwall itself I suppose. It was fairly quiet, even in Summer when we used to spend weeks at a time down there. Places like Fowey, stunningly beautiful, still had “proper” shops, butchers, bakers, newsagents, hardwear stores. Over time it was discovered and the town centre is now all expensive eateries, niche tourist shops, and you cannot move in July/August. Same has happened to Hayle, we couldn’t believe the difference when down in 2018, and again more so in 2021. Away from the towns though, it’s still very beautiful.
I agree with Tinny as well. There are visitors to Cornwall who have no conception of how to drive on the County’s tiny roads. Nor what size of vehicle will fit🤣
The canny don’t go to Cornwall in late July/August. There are still some fantastic places to stay, and how much you pay for your outfit isn’t relevant. We bought a small caravan in 1996 for £2000. Still got it, it owes us nothing, it isn’t insured, it’s stored at home. Zilch cost. Motorhome? That cost us a good bit more, but it was secondhand. It’s a much sought after model, and hasn’t depreciated in price after ten years of ownership, as newbies will still pay whatever is asked. That is insured, but not costing an arm or a leg, and again stored at home. So not exactly costing an arm and a leg to enjoy.
There are lots of folks like us at the moment who like camping because we can only go at the drop of a hat, can’t stay long, but enjoy even a couple of days away. There are a lot of folks who cannot for one reason or another hop onto a plane and fly somewhere, because a health condition won’t permit this, and I’m not just talking insurance costs. We live miles from a decent airport, so it’s a day to get somewhere, and a day back stuck in a lounge. Train transport? Love it, but the timetabling is abysmal, and you never know if there will be a strike. We can’t even get a ruddy train up to Newcastle and back without a wait of five hours at York for a connection onwards! York is 35 minutes from home! So we have to drive there and back. Folks have to make choices that suit, and thankfully we can still do very cheap touring, along with cottages, hotels.0 -
On the subject of prices and in particular our beloved Marazion (where we were wardens 2006 to 2010), I discovered on another thread that it reopened this week,at £20 per night for up to two people. Apart from main skule holidays when it is £30. A bargain!
Not sure who St Aubyn Estates have got in to manage it, it’s on Pitchup website.
It would certainly have been priced higher if CAMC still had it!
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The OP states "....a falling interest in camping". I think that should read "....a falling interest in caravanning".
There are plenty of camper vans and motorhomes out there and quite a lot of them finding much cheaper ways to put their feet up at night that isn't on a campsite but the demographics for caravanning is changing. No longer a pastime that mid 30s+ find interesting/worth the effort/ economical/"cool" (which is what some new campervanners especially feel. My opinion only). So it's left to existing caravaners to keep replacing their caravans until they decide that the towing/hassle gets too much and either give up or buy a Motorhome.
Maybe prices are too high on club sites, maybe not, depends on your view and disposable income. They certainly make me look at alternatives. I'm glad there are still members prepared to pay those fees but I do think the club faces a challenging future.
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We, caravanners, are on a THS at the moment where the vast majority of units are M/Hs and camper-vans, and this seems to be one of the ways that the lowering of cost of touring, as suggested by WN, is being accomplished, as the cost is well under £10 pn!
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We have been caravanning and motorhomimg for around 40 years but usually go abroad. Occasionally we use Club sites but I have noticed that prices have gone up considerably this year. Personally we don’t like the Club’s regimented sites but that’s just a question of personal taste. The most expensive site we use in France is now 25 euros (ACSI) rate, around £20 fully inclusive. Individual hedged pitches, electricity, free WiFi and brand new sanitation facilities. Even so, many Motorhomers obviously find this too expensive so use Aires at 10, maybe 15 euros maximum.
Perhaps this is the answer, more and more Motorhomes and many using wild camping off-grid. The very latest Motorhomes have no gas, run off batteries and can use diesel heating. Not so easy in this country but many find a way of parking up.2 -
We've stayed on about 7 or 8 different CAMC sites this year and found them all full or very nearly full. We like a bit of space.
It is clear to us that CAMC members in general have absolutely no issue with the price of sites, as I am sure CAMC are aware.
We may look to find non CAMC sites in future in the hope of lower occupancy levels....
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Perhaps the club [ltd] are increasing prices to increase the value of the business so that it can be atractive to small to medium size Venture capitalist companies topurchase it ,who will be able sell off land [sites etc] and devlope other holdings to keep up the companies value which they the can sell on to new owners ,just a thought as this what happened to my previous employer twice
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