French Towing Speeds and Gross Train Weight
Hello, I have always believed the maximum speed for a car towing a caravan or trailer in France depends on their total weight:
However, I was reading a forum where a chap stated that it is based on the Gross Train Weight of the car alone and quoted some detail of where that came from. It basically acknowledged that if that was the case then a car over 3.5 CTW ( i.e large 4X4 ) towing the same caravan as a car under 3.5 CTW would have to reduce speed on motorways to 90 km/h. whereby the lighter car can travel at 130 km/h on motorways.
I would like to hear peoples thoughts on this after reading the post via the link below:-
Ray
https://forums.practicalcaravan.com/threads/towing-abroad-and-weigh-speed-restrictions.61122/
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I believe the author on the Practical Caravan forum is correct. I found this in my notes which I believe came from the Club a while back.
We have now received confirmation from the legal department of Automobile Club de France regarding speed limits:
Vehicle towing a caravan/trailer where the vehicle has a gross train mass of under 3.5t - or a motorhome that has a gross vehicle weight under 3.5t* Motorway 130**
Dual carriagway 110**
Single carriageway 90**
Motorhome which has a gross vehicle weight over 3.5t*
Motorway 110
Dual carriageway 100
Single carriageway 80
Vehicle towing a caravan/trailer where the vehicle has a gross train mass over 3.5t
Motorway 90
Dual carriageway 90
Single carriageway 80peedee
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Hi peedee, that is excellent thank you.
However, it does seem rather strange that I with a VW Alltrack Passat can tow exactly the same caravan as a much heavier 4 x 4 and that I can travel at a higher speed. It seems to go against the 85% weight car /caravan match ratio where the heavier the car the more stable driving should be.
Ray
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Reading further on a Gov.uk site this is stated.
What is the difference between gross vehicle weight and gross train weight?
A car, van or goods vehicle exceeding its gross vehicle weight is overloaded and breaking the law. Vehicles will also have a gross train weight (GTW) or gross combination weight (GCW) that refers to the maximum total weight of the vehicle plus the maximum weight of trailer that it can tow.6 Jul 2023So this seems to say that it is a combined weight of car and caravan.
Ray
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Slightly off the main subject, but important nonetheless : please remember that the national speed limit on all non motorway roads in France is 80kph, except for those departments which have increased it to 90kph.
Dual carriageways and other roads may be an exception.
It's a bit of a minefield when travelling long distance, but you just have to keep an eye out for the speed limit signs. More info here.
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Just again calculated my combined weights
Caravan laden max 1480 kg
Car GVW. 2270
so total 3750kg GTW
So it is over the 3.5 t anyway but does the legal speeds refer to your actual weights or that max permitted that is accredited to your vehicle ?
Ray
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I am wondering if instead of the word vehicle, which could refer to car/motorhome and a caravan/trailer combination, the word outfit was actually meant? The rule would make more sense then and could equally apply to a motorhome of less than 3.5tons towing a trailer.
peedee
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This is also useful to know :-
A margin of 5 km/h (below 100 km/h) or 5% (below 100 km/h) is taken into account, always in favour of the driver. It is therefore impossible to be penalized for insignificant speeding, since this margin must always be added.
https://www.antai.gouv.fr/en/automated-control/#:~:text=A margin of 5 km,margin must always be added.
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No, the plated weights count for French speed limits, not the actual weights.
The car is a vehicle and a caravan is a vehicle, too. Therefore, a car towing a caravan are two vehicles.
You can't add the permissible gross weight of the car to the permissible gross weight of the caravan to arrive at the gross train weight. Gross train weight is the sum of all axle loads of the combination, not the sum of each individual gross weight.
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Hello Lutz,
sorry I am not up to speed with how this is calculated . How do I know if my outfit is under or over 3.5 ton. My expectation is that it is over but I want to know how this is arrived at and how non technical people like me can easily understand.
I have attached an old specs of my car which was new in 2013. That states Gross train weight as 4,305. I can't find this on the car anywhere but these specs are for my model and year. Is this the weight that counts ?
Ray
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One would assume that the gross train weight shown above (4305kg) is correct, but to be 100% sure one would have to refer to the weight plate on the car as only that counts as documentary evidence. That is the value that would be relevant for French speed limits.
If you would like to know your actual train weight, you’d have to put the car and caravan together on a weighbridge.
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Personally the fact that I could tow at 130kph or around 80mph does not mean I would, it would scare me to death, I find that UK national speed limits provide a nice safe towing maximum speed. I do get overtaken by caravanners from all over EU/UK and they are legal but when I see the bouncing that occurs with some it confirms it's not for me. The other great thing about towing on cruise control around the 55-60mph is that I either catch up with or get caught by far fewer hgv's.
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Quite apart from possibly being legally permitted to tow at 130km/h in France, many caravan manufacturers only accept product liability for speeds up to 100km/h. This may be stated in the owner's handbook or documented elsewhere. That means the manufacturer cannot be held responsible for anything that may happen to the caravan at speeds over 100km/h.
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Lutz, I have looked on the car in all the places you would expect to find a plate but no sign of it.
Re the speeds i have no intention of driving at the higher speed limit in France but 60mph is comfortable. I guess with the a margin of 5 km/h (below 100 km/h) or 5% (below 100 km/h) is taken into account, always in favour of the driver that would just about see me within the law. To be sure though a speed of maybe 58 miles per hour would be equivalent to 90 km/h.
Ray
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A statutory weight plate is a legal requirement for cars and, since 2012, for caravans, too. On cars, it is usually found on either the left or right hand B-pillar, sometimes in the engine compartment on the front bulkhead. Caravans often have the statutory plate in the front locker.
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Hi Lutz,
Found it ! It was on the left hand sill below the left hand B pillar. right at the bottom. I was just looking at the pillar itself.
I presume the top figure is the vehicle gross weight and the next one is the Gross Train Weight. So 4320kgs
So when towing the van I take it we also can't drive on roads restricted to 3.5t and below?
Ray
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Yes, 4320kg is the maximum permissible train weight. In France a 3.5t weight restriction would apply to your outfit, but that is not the case everywhere. In Germany, for example, a 3.5t weight restriction applies to each individual vehicle and it's the actual weight that counts, not the plated weight. In other words, the car may weigh up to 3.5t and the trailer also 3.5t. Only in the case of commercial vehicles over 3.5t do any weight restrictions apply to the complete combination.
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