Scotland to Spain and return costs.
After our recent trip to Spain and Portugal I thought I would work out the costs and compare with last years trip.
This year we covered 4732mls fuel cost was £990.32
Sites in total was £1033.93. We did a mixture of sites. 1 CL, 5 aires in France & 4 sites, 6 camper stops in Spain & 6 sites, 4 sites in Portugal, 4 sites in the UK. The cheapest site was in Portugal €11.90 the dearest site abroad was €23. The dearest site overall was in the UK £29.70 camc which was on our return at the end of November.
We spent 69 nights on sites/aires which averaged out to €17.02 per night. I don't record food cost or eating out.
Last year we did a very similar trip at the same time of year 4.500 mls fuel cost £1100 and sites/aires total was £1250 over 74 nts. Site costs per night were cheaper than this year but we stayed on more sites than aires.
Both years the dearest site of the trip was the Camc site on our return.
We used Acsi and private sites. This year the dearest Acsi site was €23 next year it looks as if it will be €27.
I have posted this info in case its of use to anyone to help them cost out a similar trip.
I haven't included ferries or tunnel as they vary so much depending on the time of year you travel and your preference.
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Thanks interesting figures, we are caravanners (7,3m caravan) for us doing e.g. Portsmouth - Santander, dog friendly cabin, you can factor in £1500 return for the ferry and maybe knock £200 off the fuel bill, last year we were paying €12 per night , electricity was metered.
Our cheapest route would probably be Portsmouth - Caen, living 20 mins from Portsmouth ferry port it is not cost effective to use the tunnel, not sure we will ever do it again, travel and travel insurance is becoming more and more expensive, for £1500 we can have 6 weeks away in the UK on a site with swimming pool and Spa, and non metered electricity
, ok you perhaps dont get wall to wall sunshine but we have had a couple of good months in the Uk this year.0 -
Interesting post TG. Your average daily cost for fuel and sites works out at about £30. I made two trips this year and my costs varied wildly. In Spring I made a 42 night trip to Eastern Europe and my fuel and site costs came to only £22 per day. In Autumn I had a short 24 day trip to Spain and fuel and site costs worked out a £63 per day. Fuel cost were the killer on the Autumn trip because site costs for both trips averaged £23 per night.
peedee
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I can give you prices for France as we live here it was 2 days ago in our area the LOT 1.75 to 1.80 euros a litre but if you use Total garages they are at least 15 to 20 cents a litre more but they have guaranteed the price will not be above 2.00 a litre for the next few months, also some areas a a few cents cheaper.
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That's good to know PD as we are thinking on eastern Europe for our spring trip. Not sure which route out we will take though. Hull to Rotterdam for us makes sense so will check out the costings.
Fuel in September was expensive but it got a bit cheaper as the the months went on.
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We have used the Santander ferry in the past but we kinda like the drive and being a MH the Aires are so useful for 1 night stops.
Last year we worked out the costs between the Santander ferry, St Malo, Caen and the Tunnel. Taking fuel into consideration and the extra nights travelling the St Malo ferry came out the best for us.
Everyone has different needs/wants so its personal choice. This year we went down by tunnel as its was mid September, so travelling through France was good. We came back up the Med coast and hung onto the good weather right into mid France. We did the one and only night crossing a week from St Malo, which worked out very good for us.
Last year we went tunnel both ways and it was a long drag back up to Calais, the weather was awful from the day we left the Algarve. We came back up the western route, more direct but not as enjoyable as this years route up the Med coast.
We finally managed to do the Pico mountains and the north west coast of Spain in fantastic weather. Really loved that part of the holiday, Galicia is just stunning especially the coast.
Portugal started off good but after a week the autumn storms hit and the weather was horrible, horizontal rain and very high winds. We gave in and headed to Spain where we got hit by a terrible storm outside of Saville. It only lasted a couple of hours but it ripped through the area tearing down trees and signs. The next day we headed for the Med coast and found the sun again, it never left us for the rest of the holiday.
EDIT: we never stay on sites long enough to get the cheaper prices, so we end up using Acsi which is not as cheap as it once was.
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LLM. I look at fuel prices just before I leave on my trip as the prices can vary at fairly short notice and fill up in the least expensive country en route. I have just had a look at one of the Europe fuel price sites and here are the results (in euros) - UK 1.85, France 1.81, Spain 1.55 Portugal 1.70. So in theory you should leave UK fairly empty but I have the now discontinued Esso fuel card thro' the Club so would fill up in UK! (I have the new Card for when the Esso Card expires) and try to enter Spain needing a fill up and then leave Spain with a full tank. However, as we know in Supermarkets prices can be less than shown here (in Germany they change during the day!!!). All a little complex; and then factor in the fuel saving v autoroute charge and last year the price of diesel at Total garages on the autoroutes in France was similar to that off the autoroute!!!! Almost sorry I started typing this but it shows the things to think about. Think I will open my last bottle of lovely Italian white purchased near Trasimeno last year (cheers Alan and Jean and Happy Christmas!)
As a matter of interest the days of mega cheap fuel in Luxembourg seem to have gone. At 1.54 it is probably not worth diverting but if is on route well still worth filling up there.
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That's a good rate for Spain it was almost 2€ when we went at the end of September, It did come down to around 1.70€ by November but Portugal was less than that. Just shows how you have to keep checking.
Food prices in Spain have increased a fair bit since last year.
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Hi TG, Read with interest as we are planning a trip to Portugal & Spain next year-our MH buddies arrive on Monday for a three day planning meeting-OK, that's just an excuse to cover the amount of alcohol and food that will be consumed!
(Hi, commeyras-some Nobile will be quaffed, but it's from Tesco as all my Trasimeno stock is long gone!)
As you, and others, say the costs can vary wildly depending on time you travel and of course the crossing/route options. We have, over the years, used all of the cross channel routes and for many years it was cost driven with the short sea routes being most used-which as Italy was the usual destination actually worked well.
As the "drag to Dover" became more and more of a pain we priced the BF routes and were surprised, pleasantly, that with a Club ITX fare they often beat the short routes on price-we have also used Harwich a couple of times and that beat the short routes hands down.
We will use non toll routes where they are viable but, for instance in France, towing can be a pain with all the traffic calming measures you will encounter off the autoroutes, and we calculate the toll costs using viaMichelin and Mappy.
However, the question from LLM raises a related issue-that of "real world costs" of whatever vehicle you are using. Back in 2020 and having some time free time-remember that?-I decided to practice/improve my spreadsheet skills and used a holiday costs comparison exercise using excel.
I calculated my costs at my anticipated MPG towing, at current prices, but also at the Inland Revenue mileage rate of 45p/mile. I think this a good figure to use, and almost certainly still an underestimate, for a more realistic costing and rather than doing as the AA do and considering;
Fuel
Tyres
Service and MOT
Labour and replacement parts
Parking and tolls
Car tax
Insurance
Cost of capital
Depreciation
Breakdown cover etc!So, using this criteria I recently calculated the costs for the trip, using BF from Plymouth, and posted the results on another forum as follows;
All the rows show the costings of the ferry, from the BF website, with a CV discount, the tolls from viaMichelin and the fuel costs based on the mileage
However, in row one the fuel costs are based on the current cost per mile for my car, towing, which comes to 30p/mile.
Row two is the cost at 45p/mile, which is the HMRC rate and more accurate as to the actual cost rather than just the fuel-my opinion.
Line three is line two plus our estimated cost for each overnight stop to include the site fee and a meal.
Via santander via Roscoff SantRosc
£1,821.82 £1,642.65 £1,648.90
£2,123.17 £2,110.80 £2,021.35
£2,323.17 £2,610.80 £2,421.35
As I say, these are our calculations, based on our take on things, but even in line one its clear that the oft expressed astonishment that people pay the high fares for BF Spanish routes is likely based on the ferry fare alone and with no account taken of the additional costs involved with other routes.The line two costing is at a cost per mile rate of 45p which is what HMRC allow as the cost and, on the presumption that they won't be overpaying, seems a reasonable figure-real world costs are higher.
The line three addition of a £50 per night cost is based on our preferences and experience over many years foreign travel and covers the site fee and a meal.
Enroute sires are chosen for their convenience, and are often more expensive, compared to the norm abroad out of season, and, after a day travelling, we are happy letting someone else take care of the catering when we can.
As you can see even at worst the Santander route is app £180 more and at best its app £290 less than going via Roscoff. using row two, discounting my estimate of enroute costs, Santander is just £13 more than via Roscoff.
Another plus for us is the saving of near 1400 miles on the car which we are keen to keep as long as possible.
However, and wherever, you all end up going have a great 2024!
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TG, thanks for the above figures, very interesting.
i don't keep historical data but occasionally do a rough check of the short (Caen) crossing against the Santander one for our February trip.
again, not too scientific but, for me, it came out well in favour of the drive through France....
main differences.... basic ferry about third of the cost, long crossing then Santander crossing requires cabin and we enjoyed the 'Lounge membership' so that would be added....now quite a difference.
...next, the journey....even coming into Santander requires two days drive with an overnighter somewhere to get towards Valencia....from Caen it's two stops and three days drive....not enough savings to offset the ferry costs.
next....time, the long crossing has two overnights going out....then two days drive.. the short crossing is half a day on the blare with half a days drive followed by two full days...very little in it re arrival time.
next...the 'pleasure' of the trip...the long crossing, in reasonable weather, is pleasant enough and with the Lounge (with free food) upgrade its more like a cruise...OTOH the van is a nice ride, we're happy to stop on a couple of Aires. Again, not enough difference to offset the large extra cost of the long crossing.
If staying in northern Spain the 'convenience' case might be better....however if driving to the east coast....probably not.
,Amy be different for caravanners who need to plan stops but not really for us in a MH.👍
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YT, that's very much how we look at it.
Last year we did do the sums just as a comparison and found very much the same as you, once we had factored in extra nights, extra fuel etc we were still saving a fair amount.
We did however find that the small price difference between St Malo and Caen crossings was worth it to us, given where we live in the UK. The St Malo overnight crossing (1 a week) has the advantage of giving us all day to get there, were as the Caen crossing is in the morning so need to be there overnight and ready.
This then impacts our arrival in the UK, St Malo gets us into Portsmouth at 08.00 while Caen not until 13.30. With a 08.00 arrival we can be at our sons house by late afternoon, so time to see them, then in the morning finish the journey home. With the afternoon arrival we wouldn't make it to our sons on that day so it adds extra time getting home and more site stops.
This year we very much enjoyed our trip going out the Tunnel and coming back St Malo. The drive up the Med coast stopping off a few days here and there was very pleasant and much nicer than our journey up from the Algarve last year. I know its longer but we were in the better weather and still in holiday mood well into France, picking a big bag of walnuts on one Aire was a bonus.
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I can only answer for us. Up until last year we never did, we don't keep meticulous records just check the credit card for fuel and I added the site cost to my record of what sites we used.
While we were away last year there was a problem in France with getting fuel. As our return booking for home was from Calais we decided to look at other options (we could defer booking until the following year) we were in Spain at the time so looked at the Santander ferry costs, then it was St Malo and Caen. Once we factored in fuel costs, night halts and time it became obvious to us that a St Malo crossing would work out a good choice, both time wise and cost.
As to site costs. Purely for my own satisfaction against costs in the UK, given the same type of sites and timeframe.
This year I did it again out of curiosity as we are constantly being told that the cost of living has gone up dramatically and site prices have gone through the roof (well here in the UK)
To answer your questions. I think that now we have done the sums it gives us more information on which crossing we would use depending on where we are going at different times of the year. We are happy to take our time through France in good weather so the tunnel crossing suits but in winter not so much.
No we would not cut short our holiday or alter the final destination as we don't have a budget, it costs what it costs.
The same answer really on your last question, there is no planned expenditure.
The only time we change our very loose plans is if the weather has been unkind to us or if like earlier this year there was flooding and landslips. If we are not enjoying where we are we move but I wouldn't come home early just find a nicer place
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We are similar to TG-as I mentioned I only started to look at the comparative costs during lockdown for something to do.
Similarly, we dont have a 'budget' ,and no we would not cut a holiday short unless it was circumstances beyond our control.
Its very much a case of a "change being as good as a rest" and travelling across the water provides that and for us a UK holiday would be no substitute as we do that as well anyway.
Re YT comments, its clearly very different for MH ers and our friends will be returning via Dieppe after we head for Santander for the return crossing, and using aires as they do so
However, even at the most pessimistic estimate, using the Santander route will be just £180 more-the ferry costs being just over double at £1176 compared to £564 for a car and van booked with a CV code.
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Perhaps MH ferry costs have got back to where they should be (i never got now a 12m car caravan unit cost half the price of a 6.5m MH)🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
im only paying £160 going out to Caen, far, far less than the Santander crossing incl cabin and Voyage lounge.....then theres two day driving still to do to get to Valencia...
for us, cost wise, a no brainer by a considerable margin...
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Sadly the days of the cheap ITX fares went after Covid.
The prices made a lot of sense to us-we benefited from a fare where the caravan went free, but if you had a MH then frustrating, as it was for our friends with a 8.2m MH.
Besides the cost element, which for us are very clearly favouring Santander, we don’t fancy travelling through France in March with a caravan.
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Do those of you who keep such meticulous records do so from curiosity, or to inform future plans?
Both although the original motivation was to budget/ inform future plans, not necessarily confined to van trips. Without the aide of computers it is not any easy task and certainly before them any records kept were rather sketchy. As my finances have improved so the curiosity has become more prominant.
Does the result of record keeping influence holidays?
Not a lot, in this respect they are more a curiosity but there is little point in maintaining them if you didn't use them for whatever reason.
Would you cut short a trip / alter the final destination of a trip if money was running away and exceeding a budget?
This shouldn't happen if you have done your sums right, but the answer is no.
Would you make entirely different plans for the future if a trip had been wildly off the mark in terms of planned expenditure?
My plans are never the same, variety is the spice of life. Even if the destination is the same, the route there is always different and impacts costs..
peedee
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Your breakdown of costs to Spain and Portugal are very interesting TG.
Our trip to Italy this year was for 89 days in Europe plus 4 days travelling in the UK to and from Folkestone. Our total mileage was 3327miles, fuel costs were approx 950 Euros with the cheapest fuel being in the UK and the most expensive being in Switzerland at 217SF/Lit. I tend to buy super diesel and find it’s more cost effective in miles/ litre and the vehicles performance is noticeably better (it’s a 7.4 metre long MH with a 2.3lt Fiat engine).
Our campsite fees were noticeably different to TG’s. We used a combination of Campsites and Aires/Stellplatz/Sostas on the journey to and from our final destination. Fees for the journey to/from Italy averaged 23Euros/night but that included 2 free nights on Aires and one night on a campsite in Switzerland at 74.60 Swiss Francs/night.
We spent 77 nights at our final destination with an average nightly cost of 47 Euros. This spanned July, August and September and hence various price bands.
Campsites in Italy appear to be more expensive than those in Spain but we’re addicted to Italy and hence in my opinion they’re well worth the money.
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