Can no longer afford
Comments
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Am I wrong in thinking that JK said the next edition would be the last to be distributed as a matter of course and that people could request one after that? If that is the case, no doubt the Club will be monitoring how many requests they get for paper copies and then work out from there whether it is worthwhile continuing with the printed version?
David
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Hmm, I think that would involve communicating with members. 🙁
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I think we had a good stab at it. 😜
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I suppose because that is not the way the Club operates, or at least thus far it hasn't operated that way! As with lots of things the Club does, they tend to decide what they want to do and then either say why they are doing it or that feedback from members has lead them to that decision. We have to assume that what has been said about the Site Directory is the way the Club are thinking of going, without official confirmation. I have no strong feelings either way as I tend not to use the site directory so if it stopped it would have little impact on me as I can get all the information I need online. Are the majority of members like me? I am not saying that from a selfish point of view I am just saying what impact it would have on me. Others will clearly have a different view. To me it's clear that many people who use Social Media, a far greater number than use Club Together, probably wouldn't use the book either based on questions asked and the dependence on use of the App. I assume the Club have some inkling on how popular the book is? I would suggest that someone who uses exclusively main Club sites has little need for the Site Directory? The site directory must be expensive to produce and printing 350,000 copies is a bit of a waste. The real issue is how long it would be available for members to request. That is easy enough to establish and if demand reminds high then I assume the Club will continue to produce it in sufficient numbers to satisfy demand?
David
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We have a digital membership with the C&CC at a reduced rate. The CAMC May very well have an indication of the numbers. I assume the other club don’t continue to offer it to loose money, therefore I have to assume it is financially beneficial, or at least they don’t loose from it. Clearly if the CAMC can introduce it without offering a discount that would be even better in their eyes. Personally I would be surprised if there are more than 50% of the membership that ever open it. I am not exactly young and I have a load of directories that just sit on the bookshelf until the next addition arrives. English Heritage, National Trust, CAMC to name but a few. The ACSI book did travel to France with us but never left the cupboard it was in. Apps are more up to date, easier to use and work off line using the last update if you don’t have internet, which is getting less an less difficult to access in any event.
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Everyone is different and holidaying changes with age. We couldn’t afford a basic caravan or tow car when the kids were little, at their teenage years we could afford a very basic van, that’s when we started. A very basic field at first, then, as the kids were grown, we could afford to join the CC. Then a better caravan and so on. We had many happy holidays with our grandkids at the CC Hillhead and Longleat sites, doing things that we couldn’t afford to have done with our own children.
We preferred to use the site facilities so mainly stuck to Club sites. Though on retirement we started to question how much we were paying for, membership, pitch, storage, petrol etc. We rarely take holidays abroad and have strong feelings about not using holiday cottages, in our opinion, houses should be available for locals to buy not people making money out of holiday lets. So weighing it all up we decided on buying the static van, there were also some health reasons involved. Yes it does cost us more But, we use it more, our grown up kids use it, and the teenage grandkids love it, throughout the summer it is hardly ever empty. We don’t have to book, we don’t have to tow or set up and we can arrive whenever we want. Looking at the Club prices now it does seem an awful lot for a place to put a caravan overnight with just electric and loo and shower facilities. Think even if we hadn’t bought the static we would have bowed out by now.
We won’t be able to afford it forever as the ground rent is bound to rise year on year. Then we will have to have another rethink. At the end of the day it’s all about the individuals position, what is affordable and what is worth the money to them. However, as with everything, if prices rise too steeply people will vote with their feet, there is only so much people will pay for a pitch to park their van.
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Interesting when people say they will vote with their wheels yet when people actually do vote with their wheels and use sites extensively and it's not what these same people want or rather at the prices they want they then want to know what research was done?
For the two weeks of the season I noticed that there were more outfits in service pitches than on standard pitches on a site that had 48 SP v 140 standard. The same site a few weeks ago and the SP were full while there were quite a few other pitches left. What 'research' does the club need when looking at that?
There's a wide variety of site, prices,, pitches, providers out there. Why not just pick the one you like rather than going on about how you won't want to use club sites ever again or want them cheaper?
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A couple of years ago I suggested that the club should make all pitches serviced (when upgrading a site) and charge a flat fee....very similar to the European model. I accept that there are some solo campers who would be disadvantaged ... but suspect the numbers are very low vs membership (Solo campers do go 'over there' and are subject to the set pitch fee).
This would also negate the provision of motorhome drive over areas (I have noticed an increase of motorhome users selecting serviced pitches...presumably to avoid using these). There would also be no requirement for the 'service points'....CDP being sited by TB's or on the pitch itself as per 'super pitch type...
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I've always regarded the sites directory as a handbook not just a site finding book. In fact when we first joined I probably read quite a bit of it to understand what it was all about and what was on offer. I found it was hidebound with rules too which I didn't find particularly encouraging. I've always felt the club is more membership centre directed and these are the people who take part in meetings etc and probably have the most influence on decisions? Whether this affects what the club decides regarding costs and improvements would be interesting to know but I think there is now a big split between basic vanning and the now more expensive provisions which cost a lot to provide and which are not going to offer the majority a reasonably priced holiday after the initial outlay. So is it going to be more wheels on pitches or fewer more expensive wheels? It will be interesting to see how this develops.
For ourselves we've recouped our initial outlay, hung on to our good older van but we're probably getting to the end of our present lifestyle and I wonder who will be replacing us in the present climate?
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For those that are using Club sites it may be that folk ARE voting with their wheels and moving over to serviced pitches for whatever reason (age, convenience whatever) but it is certainly apparent on this forum that many members are voting in the other direction and leaving sites behind in lieu of CLs etc. The main reason cited in these anecdotal postings is (virtually) unanimously rising price levels, and the price of a serviced pitch, not to mention the new Premium Pitches, will certainly not be inviting for those who need to watch their touring spend.
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I have never quite understood why, when starting with a blank canvas, you don't make all pitches serviced? Not sure they would need individual taps/waste as they could be shared between 2/4 pitches as is quite common in Europe. I suppose the problem is that of pricing because the Club, I would imagine, would want to charge a higher rate for what becomes a standard pitch?
David
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David, I'm sure that is it in a nutshell. The club seems to have no way or inclination to do anything other than push site prices into the stratosphere.
the introduction of Premium pitches now places some pitches at £52 or more a night. Even if we had guaranteed weather, a fabulous pool, a wonderful restaurant and bar we wouldn't be paying those sort of prices.
as it happens, we DO get all the above when we camp away but would only be paying €22 (£18.20) a night. We tour for sufficient length of time for the ferry cost to be easily recouped during the stay with such a huge site saving.
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Club are now catering primarily for those with big, heavy on inside utilities, with owners who don’t want to, or for one reason or another cannot do many of the chores associated with touring. Hence all the services, premium pitches, etc…. And of course the price tag that goes with providing all of this.
For anyone like us who still enjoy some of the physical aspects of DIY holidaying, and are happy to make do with a lot less in terms of facilities and services, there are still a few of the smaller Sites. But their season isn’t long, so it’s the CL network mainly for folks like us.5 -
Agree Brue. I once found myself totally engrossed in all the information in the handbook, aside from the site info, one rainy evening. If folks did use it for reference, it would pre empt some of the “how do I do this” questions that sometimes crop up.
Agree about the basic v expensive outlay as well. That’s what prompted my going back to roots comment.
As for going forwards……I always think the Club is a little like the LA I used to work for. It had elected representatives/committees, and it had professionally qualified salaried experts in given specialist spheres of required services. Reports were written, suggestions and feasibility studies put together, and then presented to Committees to nod through.
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With the prices of the latest growth in LVs with all the "essential?"gizmos and prices to match , the sites finance departments will be as many members it seems accept that site fees are a mere drop in the ocean to those owners🤔👍
And how many who post on here must have hardstandings and or service pitches so premium must be the next step 👍👌
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It seems quite difficult to read the runes as far as the Club are concerned. The introduction of Premium Pitches and increased number of serviced pitches seem to suggest the Club want "added value", for them not us
There was an article in the Telegraph, via MSN, that suggested the bottom had fallen out of Staycations with many thousands now reverting to foreign travel. Whether that impacts on the core Club customer I am not sure. Although it's clear that people who have spent the last two years in the UK because of COVID are starting to migrate back to Europe as they have done in the past. I noticed on Facebook last week someone who started a basic glamping campsite was complaining that they had no customers and were on the brink of giving up. I am not sure how the current recession will impact on our hobby or the Club but perhaps the CMC is thinking that it can't compete on prices and so will go after the better heeled customer, hence the Premium Pitches?David
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I think it is a peculiarity amongst some Club Members who migrate from a van to a MH, and use it like a van, plugged into all the services and often with a big pegged down awning attached. Club Sites are full of outfits like this, so it’s on ideal territory catering to this. Away from Club Sites, it’s a lot rarer to see such an outfit set up, many more the wheels might turn daily, and it will be a roll out canopy. If you tour like this, having a serviced pitch is wasted really, so it doesn’t represent good value for money at the prices the Club charges for anyone like us.
(I am in no way knocking anyone’s choice of how they tour, it’s just an observation of what is more prevalent on Club Sites, rather than on the majority of CLs)
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I think I should point out that many set up the full works on non ehu sites, rallies and THS, it's their choice and they manage. Nothing to do with what type of unit they own. However CAMC has costly pop up sites where non ehu is not an option. Edit... I presume the purchase of in house generators has now forced this costly option on members who were happy without ehu and with lower costs. It has stopped us going to CAMC events, my idea of misery is being near a giant generator!
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TDA...I do agree with your point re the physical aspect of touring...as does my Doctor...who says and I quote "for a man of 80yrs you are pretty damn fit"....I do attribute much of that statement to the 'fetching and carrying' required in our hobby...which substantially increased since our retirement some 20 years ago...however we do tend to enjoy more recently just hooking up to facilities...albeit club or CL's (The latter also appear to be moving over to HS + Service)...
Aside...I was thinking I may only have..say another 5/6yrs of towing in me...but recently met a couple on their late 80's still enjoying 'the tug'...that was at a site near Bordeaux en route to Biarritz.......now where did I put that caravan brochure
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We've noticed some empty pitches as we've been out and about this summer - moure than 'usual'. Englethwaite Hall had quite a few empty pitches, an d so many tended to use it as a one or two night stop over. When I spoke to the site managers on of the things they did say was that, although they had spare pitches, rarely were the Sserviced pitches empty....
David
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....just going on from what folk were saying earlier when it was suggested that the cost of fuel was perhaps the most significant factor, of late, I have noticed a slight drop in fuel prices. We were regularly paying in the late £1,90's per litre of deisel at the start of the summer. On Thursday, I managed to fill up, north of Wells for £1.809 a litre. Not a patch on earlier on in the year, but certainly a step in the right direction .
David
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I think there comes a time for us all where some of the physicality’s required need compromise, 😁 happily at the moment we still share the tasks and enjoy getting the Fitbit kudos. The Club, and other institutions have made it easier to continue touring later into life for many, but it does come at a cost. I just wish they had more of the budget option sites like they had 20 years ago.
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I would miss the handbook. I do use the web site map finder for finding CLs alongside the book. But we always take the book with us, and especially use if for the directions for the last few miles. Saves us having to print them off before we go.
I do think there is a lot of really good info in the handbook about using your van, especially caravans, and about how to behave on site. It is just a shame more people don’t read it.
If we have to opt for it, then I shall opt for it.
We don’t all spend lots of time on our computers, so sometimes using the handbook to see where club sites are in a particular area is quicker than turning on computer etc. Although in regard to club sites there is a lot more detail on line than in the handbook. Of course you cannot even hazard a guess at cost from the handbook.
re serviced pitches, we like them when we can get them. So, more and more CLs have them, or water to the pitch, often with grey into the hedge. We are going to a Haven site in October, serviced pitch and swimming pool, £15 a night from memory.
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Corners wrote 'For the two weeks of the season I noticed that there were more outfits in service pitches than on standard pitches on a site that had 48 SP v 140 standard.'
That would suggest 90 odd normal pitches empty. Maybe they are charging too much for the majority rather than insufficient of all the "bells and whistles" being available.
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I think you may have missed the part where I said the first two weeks of the season? 44 outfits on SP and 38 on standard is pretty good for March I would say or would you expect a full site even then. Btw the majority of those outfits were motohomes.
But you definitely missed off the rest of my post by your selective quote. I'll remind you and others what I said:
'The same site a few weeks ago and the SP were full while there were quite a few other pitches left...
There was about 10 standard pitches empty I recall. So about 95 per cent full over all.
That really says your post is invalid in my view.
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