Can no longer afford
Comments
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Apart from the fact that It is illegal to charge more for electricity than the price it it is purchased at by the supplier. I know that the argument is that the club are charging a pitch price by that is just a way of dodging the fact. They should not be making a profit from selling on electricity.
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Are you scrolling down the booking page far enough Steve?
Only two of listed sites we know are Marazion and Exeter Racecourse. Both have the economy pitches available to book, although for one weekend in August, all the eco pitches at Marazion are full (BH weekend) We personally would only consider one out of the three eco pitches there. One is a ski slope, one has very little space, one is a really good location but next to road and service point. You would still be paying £20 for a no hook up grass pitch this year.
The three eco pitches at Exeter are very nice though, set back away from worst of road noise, nice for an easy stroll around racecourse, and very little disturbance from others on site. I haven’t checked the price of Exeter.We used to use the Eco pitches at Wincanton, they were very nice.
Edit…. Just had a good look at some of the site plans on the eco link, and the bookings pages and the information is all over the place. A couple of the sites named have no eco pitches marked on the site map🤷♀️ As you say Steve, a couple more sites have eco pitches but they are booked solid or not available. Treamble Valley is interesting…..the 5 eco pitches there are almost a separate entity from the Site proper, being on the approach to reception. Great for an overnight pull in if cheap enough. Terrible for a long stop as all the site traffic will be passing in and out constantly.
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They are not and if they were they and the CCC and countless others (hotels, holiday lets, campsites...) who work in this way would be dealt with. That hasn't happened.
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Nellie, that applies to the resale of metered electricity but not to all inclusive prices or to a fee for use of the bollard.
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The Club have been very reluctant to consider metering. A constant pitch fee and metering would be the fairest way of offering pitches to the many different types of outfits that stay. The argument around the cost of meter bollards is a smokescreen. The Club has the wherewithal to phase in metered bollards as part of Site upgrades. But it’s never considered. One price for all, regardless of what you tour in.
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Quite agree nellie. Take the surcharge for increase in electricity costs. It is more per night in the summer months than the winter. If it is indeed just to cover the extra costs, that is not logical. Perhaps they are assuming everyone will be running air conditioning units.😂
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Steve I agree it doesn't look logical on the surface but that maybe because we look at it in terms of per outfit rather than the club which may have to look at it from a club site level or even higher. There are more people on site in the summer months using perhaps more electricity than the smaller number in the winter ones?
We all think that summer use electricity will be a fraction of our winter's use and of course it is.
Lets say for a very rough example that summer use for an outfit is one third of the amount used in winter, but if in summer three times the amount of people use that site then it is the same cost, if more than three times then it's going to cost more and hence the higher charge? One outfit in winter may use £12, while three outfits in summer at one third will use the same amount, four outfits... Other fractions are available this is just a rough example of what may happen
Is one third about right? Also we perhaps, or I do, think that out summer use electricity is far more than it perhaps really is. Apart from this last week (even though yesterday was a 'high' of 16C up here) electricity is still used in summer, fridges, water heating... For us the only thing that changes is that the space heating isn't used as much but it is still used. Water heating is still used to the same extent as in winter. Two weeks ago it was well into the 20's during the day but in the evenings it was down enough to need the heating on inside the caravan. Perhaps we all think that our fraction is about a tenth but I would say for me it is somewhere between a quarter and a half. Another poster said their usage was about 10 Kwh per day on his present trip.
Two more points spring to mind, yes as you say it's called an electricity surcharge but surely all those extra people on site in the summer will use more showers and that must drive up the gas costs for the site in the same way so perhaps they should have called it an energy surcharge?
Also if there is an amount of money needed to cover the extra costs the club could just divided it up into equal amounts through the year but as there are far more on site in the summer months perhaps it is skewed to have more people paying more in summer?
I'm not giving the above as a cast iron theory/fact of what is going on just a possible explanation.
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Lets say for a very rough example that summer use for an outfit is one third of the amount used in winter, but if in summer three times the amount of people use that site then it is the same cost, if more than three times then it's going to cost more and hence the higher charge? One outfit in winter may use £12, while three outfits in summer at one third will use the same amount, four outfits... Other fractions are available this is just a rough example of what may happen
You will have to explain further CS as I’m afraid I just don’t see it.
If in summer the site is full with 100 vans at a £2.50 surcharge the club gets an additional £250. Where as in winter with a third of the vans (33 for round numbers) using the same overall amount of electricity the surcharge is only £1.50 so bringing in only £49.50. If the 2.50 equates to the extra cost in summer, then they certainly aren’t covering it in winter. In reality I fear winter usage is likely to be significantly greater, making things even more disproportionate.The figures of £2.50 and £1.50 are roughly the surcharges on my various bookings at the different times of the year.
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So now that we have a surcharge for energy costs ( not that I object per se), it is even more unlikely that one will ever get the price quoted in the handbook for a pitch. Obfuscation? - absolutely.
Like Peedee, I've voted with my wheels.
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At Brora, on the two non EHU pitches that you don’t seem able to book, the cost of electricity is £5.10 a night. Although strangely it’s the same now and when the site closes in November. We’ve booked an EHU pitch but I doubt our usage will get anywhere near that in early September, although by November it would likely be a different story.
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I understand what Corners is saying. And I think Nellie’s point of view.
Essentially, the Club will be hoping to achieve an average income per pitch, per site, per year/season. That is indeed how it explained passing on the 70p-£2.50 per night surcharge back in April. It doesn’t matter how much electricity an individual uses, everyone is expected to pay an average the Club has allocated to the pitch price/per person. Members just rock up, plug in, and you fill your boots or not, in terms of electricity. That is what the Club has deemed as it’s fair way of dealing with the fuel costs. Legal, yes. Fair, questionable. Eco friendly, I think not. (Despite the limp request not to use too much electricity)
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Is the Club reluctant?
This is a quote from the last AGM:-
In light of the green agenda and the ever-rising price of electricity, will the Club continue to offer members unlimited (and unmetered) electricity when they book a pitch with EHU, or will the club move to some form of metering in the foreseeable future?
The fairest way to charge for electricity usage would be based on consumption, and this would also likely influence usage levels from a sustainability perspective. Unfortunately, the cost of infrastructure and subsequent monitoring and payment mechanisms are significantly cost prohibitive at this time. Having said this, the Club is constantly reviewing the technology and opportunities in this space in order to identify cost effective ways of being able to deliver this type of arrangement in the future.
We have to accept that the Club have looked at the option but in their opinion at this point in time they don't think it cost effective or feasible. With cheaper renewables coming online all the time it is possible that we could see the price of electricity fall in the longer term once the influence of coal/gas/oil is diminished?
David
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I see it slightly differently DK. The Club have agreed metering would be fairer, that it would show a better commitment towards green credentials.
It has vast amounts of money for site refurbishments/purchasing new site options. We know this because it’s ongoing both prior to COVID and during. So why not consider putting in some metered pitches as part of one of these refurbs? Doesn’t have to be the whole Site, if it’s a trial it’s easily controllable and measurable. (Don’t forget it bought that patch of land in Bristol, which it’s had for years, without planning permission)Personally, I think there is some very creative pricing going on. Putting in meters would identify what the pitch price is, without electric. Leaving things as it is, inclusive, the Club can charge what it likes for a pitch, and Members are none the wiser as to what their personal electrical consumption is, and how much it forms a part of the overall pitch price.
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...using the same overall amount of electricity the surcharge is only £1.50 so bringing in only £49.50
But that's the point they are not using the same amount of electricity. Summer usage will be (for example) one third of the winter usage. Also in your example above you've just done one third of the units and not one third of the usage, As I said we think outfit, the club has to think site and it's not about covering anything in winter it's about the whole year.
Again there is an amount of money to be found due to increased costs. Imagine a strange site that can only have four outfits.
In winter one outfit will use say £12 of electricity per day, in summer £4. In winter there is only one outfit so the total cost is £12. In summer one week there are three outfits but as they all use £4 each that is £12 again. But if a fourth outfit appears the cost now is £16. An extra £4 in summer even though each individual units is using less electricity. and hence that's maybe why the surcharge is higher in summer - more units using more power.
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I'm working from memory here but didn't the club say in the statement about the energy surcharge that they were aiming towards metering? I'm sure PD will remember as he welcomed the comment at the time.
Personally, I don't see that it matters how the club arrives at its pitch charging arrangement as we either pay up or walk away. I care not what proportion of that fee covers electricity, water, kiddies' play area or wardens' pay as it's the total that matters.
The advantage of metering, in my view, would be to encourage some to be a bit thriftier and would enable the club to adjust lekky prices (when legal to do so) without the need for major site fee revamping.
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Legal, yes. Fair, questionable.
In my mind there is no questionable about it. It simply isn’t fair.
They have loaded it on the already high prices of peak season, when they know folk are unlikely to cancel. While those of us who use the sites out of season and particularly in the winter months benefit at their expense. I know this has always been the case, but as this was badged as a specific surcharge it would have been nice if in some respect it reflected reality.
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I can see Corner's point and Nellie's. As for metering the way it was explained at a recent meeting was suppliers claims were not all that it seemed when looked a closely. While cost is a factor, I got the impression it was not what was holding the Club back. What was, was finding a system which was easy for members to use and not onerous on site managers. However as ususal the Club keeps members in the dark about progress.
With regard to costs per night with and without electricity, if you consider the C&CC costs to be similialr the difference is £6 per night. I have not used a metered pitch since the jump in energy costs but prior to this running the fridge and boiling the occasional kettle used 4Kw daily at a cost of just under £1 (water heating and cooking done with gas)
I recently did 6 consecutive days off grid quiet happily with no constraints on battery usage. The only thing that stops us doing this all the time is the lack of off grid hard standing pitches. Make these available and I would probably stay off grid 90 percent of the time. Metering would produce the same result.
peedee
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PD, I looked at Treamble Valley yesterday, one of the sites that offers economy no hook up pitches. They are on the approach into the site, pre reception, all grass, no awnings allowed. The current price for an outfit and a couple is £27.70 per night.
For an extra £6.30 you can have a pitch with more security, a lot quieter in terms of passing traffic, put an awning up, have a hardstanding, and use as much electricity as you want.
I am not convinced that the Club is offering much in the way of value for money for those happy to consider a no hook up pitch with the Club.
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We have noticed that the Norfolk.Broads seem to use smart cards if you want EHU when moored at many places that can be topped up at various outlets/shops
But as the club have advised the initial set up on all sites would be extremely expensive
And of course the site staff if not rolled out on all sites that are not subject to being on long term leases , would be given even more problems by some members who would then query pitch prices even more
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It's easy to see where the club is heading. More motor caravan pitches (that's where the increased demand is) and a car park is cheap to build and maintain. Caravan pitches (for those who really must change eventually, but short term will be tolerated), and cabins. Cabins are the way to multiply the revenue, radically reduce routine maintenance. High investment costs are raised from existing site users. I don't blame the club, which as a business must generate investment for future growth.
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They are different as far as I can see at at all the sites where they are provided DD.
Whilst I would hesitate to say folks are being actively discouraged, it might be the case that the price difference, and overall make up of the pitch (grass, no awning, location) might not be attractive enough to persuade anyone to opt for using one. You do appear to get a tremendous amount more for £6.30 per night. Not just a hook up. Put simply, the eco pitches are way too expensive in comparison with a hook up pitch. The hook up pitches offer more and better value.1 -
I don't think its anything to do with "Green Credentials" I suspect Peedee has identified the real reason why the Club is taking its time to reach a decision. First of all if it decides to go down the route of metering it has to take its members with them. To achieve that it has to have a system in place that everyone can understand and finds easy to operate and as Peedee points out does not involve more time pressure on site staff. There are so many possible systems for payment from coin in the slot, I suspect most wouldn't want that as more and more of us are carrying less cash/coinage around with us these days. The system which would be less convenient for the Club would be a means of recording arrival and reading on departures as that is too labour intensive. The prepaid card which could be topped up onsite independent of the site staff would probably be the most universal option. However an App on your phone which you scanned at the start of your stay and again at the end would be a bit more modern. Rather like charging an electric vehicle?
David
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The Treamble non ehu pitches are quite pleasant TDA, they are in the open at the top of a very steep hill and at least a phone signal is available up there plus a nice dog walk. Everyone else has a long climb out of the site! It's actually a nice site and good for local beaches etc. But yes the price difference there doesn't seem an incentive.
Our non ehu stay at Steamer Quay cost £21.80 pn just before the top summer rates came in. Still half the price of nearby Hillhead and Ramslade and the site had a small facility block so there's no hardship involved (we use our own facs.) Everything depends on what choices people make. We could have stayed alongside the Quay for £10 per night, limited to two nights. But it was too basic for us and people were ignoring the safety regs, parking a few feet from each other. We like grass not tarmac and a lot more space! Photo of us on the pitch for example. However we were all able to enjoy the river Dart.
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Thanks for the extra info on TV brue, I was merely looking at prices and facilities on that one, don’t know it at all. Steamer Quay does appeal to us though, location, location😁 Would pay extra to stay there, as it is so convenient for Totnes.
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Fair enough, but there is no way anyone will convince me that that the club is not making a profit from the "sale" of electricity, however they wrap it up!
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But that's not illegal in this instance and I question whether it is even wrong to do so as you and I have no idea what costs are involved in bringing electricity to the bollards or the upkeep of the bollards and electrical infrastructure itself.
That is why if metering is introduced it is my contention that basic pitch fees will be increased to cover those overheads because no excess charge can be made on the resale of the electricity.
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It's been said before by a few (sorry I can't remember your names) that if people believe that metering will make club sites cheaper that is a mistake. I agree too, all that will happen is that the 'non EHU' part of the fees will be bigger than they were before.
Also it's not just club sites than operate in this way.
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There has been a lot in the press recently about commercial premises really being hit by the cost of electricity as unlike private energy customers their electricity supplies are not capped. So its possible the Club are paying much more for electricity than you and I are. obviously they charge a flat average rate for electrics but I imagine somehow that evens itself out. Any surplus the Club makes comes back to the members anyway, its not syphoned off anywhere to some offshore account
David
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