Diesel & petrol alternatives? Your thoughts please
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With the price at this time of most EVs and lack of charging facilities ,it is one of the main reasons reading reports that the majority of sales are to companies for their employees as they would be,cheaper buy and to keep on the road
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I’d not have thought so. There’s no comparison between a linear drive electric motor and an ICE engine needing a clutch and gearbox, in my opinion.
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Huh? There is no drive train to stress. The most damaging parts of towing are gear changes (there are no gears), pushing large amounts of torque thorough the gear box and clutch if there is one or torque converter (there is no gear box clutch or torque converter), and breaking (EVs break using their regen and so wear their breaks far less - even when towing).
Electric motors are far more stable under high torque loads than ICE engines, which can stall if the transmission is not sufficient.
I would say the concern about the stress on the drive train is probably the bottom of the pile of worries that manufactures have over towing. Far more likely is the cost associated with homologation, spread over the much smaller sales that an EV might see compared to an ICE car, making the process costly.
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As far as I'm aware JVB Company and Fleet cars sales fell during Covid, however I would imagine that an EV would have economical benefits to any company considering buying or leasing them eg fuel and tax costs would drop considerably.
I think you could possibly look these things up for yourself, all the information is out there.
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I am confused - I said "Stress on the drive train is absolutely the last part that I would be worried about. No gear boxes, no clutches, no torque converters. Just a motor or two and a diff or two. "
And posted a link to https://electrictowcars.co.uk which mentions that EVs make good tow cars - for example
"For instance, electric motors provide a lot of torque, and they produce that torque from very low speeds, a great attribute for towing. Furthermore, as electric cars are generally heavier than ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) cars, that also aids their towing performance. As heavier cars are more stable tow cars, as you don’t want the tail (trailer) wagging the dog (tow car)."
Pretty sure at no point did I say there would be concern about more stress on the drive train?
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Ah - in the out of date AutoExpress article posted by Oneput.
There are some very good reasons for this. Chiefly, the extra weight of a caravan could cause the car’s motors and brakes to struggle.
Yeah, for small EV like the ZoE or e208, possibly the case, in the same way as it’s true for say a Clio or petrol 208.
But for larger new cars that have the weight and power to support towing, they are being homologated.
p.s. the website performance today is abysmal!!!
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I see your trolling of folk you disagree with hasn’t got any better JV. If you don’t know what you are talking about-don’t talk at all is my advice to you. You don’t like EV’s so why play these games with folk who are acting in good faith🤷🏻♂️
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So it was a third party article and not something you should have directly attributed to another poster. Get your facts right, JV!
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The clean air zone in Manchester (and the other cities it applies to) requires you have a car that complies with EURO6 or better. That’s petrol newer than 2012 and diesel newer than 2016.
There is no requirement buy an EV or even a brand new car.
Once again, this is not a scrapage scheme that is pushing EVs.1 -
So just to round up so far;
If you want to engage with an EV, can charge at home, and are in a position to obtain or take advantage of a new or nearly new car, EVs offer a rounded experience that might fit some (many? but by no means all) solo and towing uses. And they offer some interesting longer term savings into the package that may make up for the initial expense.
If however, you can't charge at home, are not looking to take on the expense of a new or nearly new car, or have some other (equally valid) reason for not wanting to move away from petrol or diesel, hanging onto an ICE car or taking on a new one (in whatever form) is still entirely viable and a totally valid option that many (indeed most) folks will want to go for.
Just for balance (as this is about all diesel and petrol alternatives) hydrogen (fuel cell or Hydrogen ICE) today is a non-starter (especially for towing, but also in general), as there is almost zero infrastructure and no cars to speak of.
LPG is still only (AFAIK) a retro-fit option, so only really valid for older petrol cars (out of warranty) and as a cost saving exercise.
Rubber band cars are still not a thing, and the Flintstones foot powered solution only really works up to about the age of 5.
What else is out there?
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I'm not even sure about the viability of LPG powered cars now in view of the number of pumps disappearing off forecourts, ChocT. You’ve described how hydrogen is an unlikely option and we know the supply of diesel/petrol powered vehicles is dwindling and, as we stand now, due to disappear altogether in a few years. I guess that leaves EVs well in the frame for the future.
Theres no doubt that charging will be an issue for many unless infrastructure is provided and I think we are likely to see huge steps forward in both this and battery technology in coming years. I’m no expert, mind!
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Like you - I feel pretty positive around this. The roll-out of chargers is all about money and process rather than technology, and the good news is that Shell and BP have both identified that charging is now a profitable business for them. It's that magic commercial angle that will make things grow.
On the batteries front, there are two parts, 1) the commercials around todays technologies and chemistries which are improving with scale and 2) the development of new tech and chemistries that will bring faster charging, improved energy density and longer ranges.
StoreDot, are a development company (the same people behind the SanDisk thumb drives) who are working on a silicon based battery capable of being charged by about 100 miles (35 to 50 kWh) in 5 minutes, and have demonstrated their battery at small scale.
And Nio (a Chinese car company under the same banner, Geely, who own Volvo, Polestar and the LEVC) are planning to bring battery swap locations to Europe with their brand.
I am a bit sceptical about battery swap models, but you have to say - it sounds very attractive for towing.
Lots to be excited about.
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Batteries are the stumbling block & how to hold charge longer without damage or compromising their safety. There are lots of options under development with a big promise but bringing them to the market safely is the issue & takes time upscaling ideas. VW have 3 partnerships going forward. Scale again is the issue, the world can’t just keep cramming 18650 cells into cars with crossed fingers🤷🏻♂️
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Certainly big companies getting on board with the provision of charging facilities will move things forward. It’s in their own interests of course as Shell and BP will eventually see petrol & diesel sales fall off.
The battery developments sound very encouraging and don't forget Lithium is being mined in Cornwall just up the road from me. As a bonus, that has to help the employment situation locally.
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As an aside-Shell have already moved into the energy supply market👍🏻, they supply me.
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I'm pleased to hear it 🙂
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Or single malt...
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