Diesel & petrol alternatives? Your thoughts please
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Lovely,
but it does occur to me that with such a physically large local power grid (i.e spread over such a large area), it would be incredibly expensive to upgrade to charge local ALL-ELECTRIC cars, local farming and forestry vehicles, delivery vans etc AND THEN ADD tourist EVs (cars, caravans and motorhomes etc) at peak demand times.
Still look on the bright side. You may get to Scotland, but possibly never get back
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Having just read on BBC News that the UK had to fire up its reserve coal-fired power station in August to meet demand, I think those questioning our generating capacity will feel somewhat justified. True, windspeeds were low and cloud reduced solar, but this was in the height of Summer and with very few EVs (compared with 2030 onwards) needing a charge. We also get windless cloudy days in winter.
I also note that the National Grid was clear, that its choice of method of generation was entirely cost based. The environment and global warming are not considerations. It is obviously going to all be down to car, caravan and motorhome owners to put our nation's CO2 output to right.
If I may also support those pointing out that we each have our own circumstances. There was one car at my house when I moved in. I married (2 cars) and now have two adult children (4 cars). One day they will (?) leave (2 cars), then 1 then none..... I have one on-plot parking space and cabling other "communal" spaces requires crossing other peoples land and erecting charging stations with their permission.
We also recently considered moving to a new house on a new estate, but there are only 2 parking spaces per plot. Even the larger 4 bedroom houses only have 2 or 3 parking spaces. The design is so clever, there are NO unallocated spaces for residents, just 2 or 3 per street for "visitors" (which are needed for that purpose). NONE are cabled for chargers and the sales office was unable to say if the cables in the streets or to each new house could handle the current demand post 2020.
I remain convinced that moving to all EVs will not allow caravanning and those with horse trailers that tow to continue remotely as now. Do I believe that any combination of Government and civil service will sort it all out. Not at all. Look at the PE and financial preparation for the pandemic. Look at Grenfell and its aftermath. Look at Kabul last week.
We doomed I tell you....doomed.......doomed..........
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Air, with due respect 2030 is a long way off & technology is advancing by the month not the year or decade. I agree it won’t be plain sailing but we’ve all seen around the world at the climate calamities, ICE isn’t an option anymore, it’s run it’s course, fossil fuels need to stay buried we have no other way to swerve the tipping point into no return re climate. Change-It’s going to happen.
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Here's the LINK about the recent use of coal....what it does mention is the soaring price of natural gas but it states we're also on track for the phasing out of coal.
In the meantime, switch something off, I suspect we're also wasting fuel.
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I just noticed that this Blog article is reproduced in the Sept CMC magazine. There is also some mention of "alternative fuelled vehicles" in the editors intro with regards to Tow Car of the Year, and a letter on the letters page from someone who tows with a Polestar 2. 🤔
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at the bottom of the blog is a small bit 'about the author' The implication is that the above journey was done with his family ....
Lee Davey
Purchasing a caravan on a whim a dozen or so years ago, Lee Davey thought it would just be for weekends away with the kids. Since then, Lee has explored the UK and Europe with his family and has taken part in caravanning trips to Asia and the Arctic Circle, crossing almost 30-countries in the process.
The caravan in question is a 2 berth ..... and has a MTPLM of less than a tonne
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He went with his son Charley. Was just the two of them. It’s not a large van, but then it’s a Tesla M3, so it can only tow 1000Kg. They should have done the test with a Polestar 2 😁
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I assume you have not seen my posts on towing with that very model on here?
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CT - Indeed we have - ad infinitum. Greta would be delighted.
I read your blog in detail, what a nonsense level of planning was needed to travel a couple of hundred miles.
How do you feel about the new home chargers that are programmed to switch off just when you need them, and connect to the internet so that you can be charged as a tax for the electricity you use charging up? Switch off because HMG KNOW that there is insufficient power in the grid to cope with their target of electric cars, and recent events have proved that there never will be as long as HMG continue to promote wind and solar instead of nuclear.
I think you said that your Polestar is a company car?? Nice tax breaks, BIK etc but most peeps on this forum don't have the luxury of company cars. OK so the theory is that no one will buy these things, just lease them. How do you lease with no provable earnings other than State Pension and savings to live on?
How do I tow an 1850KG t/a van with an EV - impossible. So not only a new car, but a new noddy size caravan as well.
I have asked my MP several times where he thinks the electric is going to come from, and indeed who is going to pay for the unsustainable rush to net zero - guess what - he refuses to answer - probably because he can't.
I'll stick with my euro 6 diesel SUV (which I bought when I still had an income) until it falls apart, then dump the caravan.
Polestar 2- starting at £39900 - what would the actual cost be when necessary stuff is added - like extended range etc? I bet close to £50K.
Rant over. Off to the gym to lose weight so my car does a bit more MPG.
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CT - Indeed we have - ad infinitum. Greta would be delighted.
Sorry if I am boring you...
I read your blog in detail, what a nonsense level of planning was needed to travel a couple of hundred miles.
All that massive planning of having a look at a couple of apps and a map, just like I would for towing a caravan to any any unknown CL. Terrible. Must have taken me literally minutes.
How do you feel about the new home chargers that are programmed to switch off just when you need them, and connect to the internet so that you can be charged as a tax for the electricity you use charging up?
They are not "new" the OZE grant was always based on the idea of smart chargers. Mine is, and I find it very helpful being connected to the internet so I can start and stop my charge from phone if I need to and see how much (or little) power has been drawn. Given that I only use mine over night when electricity is both cheap and abundant, it would impact me (and all other EV drivers I know) precisely not at all. If you had read any more about them you may have noticed that the default configuration would be to not charge at peak times, and that could be overridden by the user. Though - given that would cost more - most people would not. The idea that they will be used to implement a tax on charging is simple here-say with no basis in evidence or fact. Far more likely that road charging is implemented which would impact all drivers.
Switch off because HMG KNOW that there is insufficient power in the grid to cope with their target of electric cars, and recent events have proved that there never will be as long as HMG continue to promote wind and solar instead of nuclear.
Does not seem to be the opinion of national grid, but there we go. See busted myth number 1. https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/5-myths-about-electric-vehicles-busted
I think you said that your Polestar is a company car?? Nice tax breaks, BIK etc but most peeps on this forum don't have the luxury of company cars. OK so the theory is that no one will buy these things, just lease them. How do you lease with no provable earnings other than State Pension and savings to live on?
Yes its a company car, and yes there are excellent tax breaks, and yes I am very fortunate to be in a position to take advantage of them. Though whatever car I choose to use next as a personal car will also be an EV. Probably used, and probably leased or on some other PCP. In terms of leasing with a different income model - maybe you don't. But the question is no different for an EV than it is for an ICE. The point being that EVs are still relatively new, the second hand market is still developing, and lower cost solutions are on the way both used an new.
How do I tow an 1850KG t/a van with an EV - impossible. So not only a new car, but a new noddy size caravan as well.
No - you just pick an EV that is capable, when the price is right. The C40 EV and from next year XC40 EV will both to 1800kg. The Audi Eton 1800 already. The Tesla X over 2000. The Rivian and Ford F150 when the arrive far more. Just give it a few yers and there will be plenty of choice.
I have asked my MP several times where he thinks the electric is going to come from, and indeed who is going to pay for the unsustainable rush to net zero - guess what - he refuses to answer - probably because he can't.
Possibly because the 1st is already answered - generation is not an issue, and the 2nd is an intractable question - we are all going to pay. I do find it ironic that you describe the "rush to net zero" as "unsustainable", given that it is being non-net zero that in unsustainable, by very definition.
I'll stick with my euro 6 diesel SUV (which I bought when I still had an income) until it falls apart, then dump the caravan.
Jolly good. Clearly an EV is not a viable proposition for you right now. Maybe it never will be. Fortunately, no one is planning to take away your euro-6 car so you don't have to worry about it. But rest assured that some day in the future, a suitable EV will be available to tow your outfit, and do so in an economically viable manner.
Polestar 2- starting at £39900 - what would the actual cost be when necessary stuff is added - like extended range etc? I bet close to £50K.
Long range single motor with towbar; £43,900 on the road.
Rant over. Off to the gym to lose weight so my car does a bit more MPG.
Enjoy the Burn.
I am not here to convert you - or anyone. Just to point out the truth associated with EVs and towing, and to help folks understand that the future of all EVs on our roads is not a death knell for the caravan industry. EVs are just at the start of becoming main stream, and caravan towing with an EV in its infancy. But it is possible, it's not massively different, and the future looks even better.
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As I posted the other week .. the grid can generate it, but the infrastructure to get it to households isn't there (yet)
Acknowledged. Work is needed in this area both for properties without private parking, and for DNOs to support local higher loads.
100 miles towing is just now where near far enough for most of us .... it'd take forever to get anywhere.
100 miles _in one go_ is not for enough _for you_. I still maintain, this is a very individual thing, and for a good number it wont be enough, but for a different good number it will. I am not sure anyone has figured out what the average tow length is, or how many stops are taken. I would love to see that data though...
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I agree with you Andy 100 miles would be no good for me as it is 268 miles one way to visit my Son in Cornwall. That would work out as 6 days travelling for me. I have a greedy car but it does enable me to make the journey in an acceptable time.
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But ED, I don’t just tow 100 miles in one day. I towed over 200 in July, and am planning over 240 one way in one day later this month.
ADP - towing 268 in one day would be absolutely possible too.0 -
My mistake .... I should have said in one go rather than each day. It'll still take a while though, especially when you're waiting for the 3 or 4 other EVs to charge up before you get to the charger 😉
Though it's not something I've made a habit of, but I've towed from mid west coast French France to home in more or less one go before now, obviously with a break for the Chunnel. But regardless, I don't have a spare £100k for a Tesla Model X to tow my 1860kg twin axle.
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Coincidently I drove a hybrid Renault Capture the other day. Other than being French 🙄, I was quite impressed with it! It certainly moved pretty well and a seamless swap from leccy to petrol when required. I wouldn't want to buy/own one though. 😉
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My mistake ....
NP
I should have said in one go rather than each day. It'll still take a while though, especially when you're waiting for the 3 or 4 other EVs to charge up before you get to the charger 😉
Although I have never had to wait to charge my EV, towing or otherwise, and the charging has taken the same time as the stop I would have made anyway. And right now, waiting to charge vs waiting to fill is a bit of a mute point
Though it's not something I've made a habit of, but I've towed from mid west coast French France to home in more or less one go before now, obviously with a break for the Chunnel.
That I would not argue with. Towing 400 to 600 miles in one day is doable in an EV, but would have a much longer day given the extra stops with Polestar 2 tech, but would be easier with Ioniq 5 or EV 6 Battery tech.
But regardless, I don't have a spare £100k for a Tesla Model X to tow my 1860kg twin axle.
Also point taken, though a quick look at autotrader shows 100D model Xs at sub 70K used (not that I have a spare 70K either!!!). An equivalent performance / Spec / Age Range Rover, is a similar price (5L Autobiography), though generally much lower mileage.
Used EVs are holding their prices very well as they (generally) have far fewer age related issues to deal with than ICE.
What _is_ annoying, is that the EVs that have longer range _tend_ to also be higher performance and so command a higher price (Certainly true for Tesla), although again, Kia and Hyundai are changing that situation.
But give it time - I am certain that both initial prices will drop, battery sizes will grow and charging times will decrease and charging availability will increase. And all of those will be dramatic in the next 2-3 years, long before the 2030 ICE end date.
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@Chocolate Tree ... Although I have never had to wait to charge my EV, towing or otherwise, and the charging has taken the same time as the stop I would have made anyway. And right now, waiting to charge vs waiting to fill is a bit of a mute point
because the majority of us drive an ICE car hence the lack of queues at the charging points - yet! And I filled two cars over the week end without queuing .... not panic buying but both cars needed it
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Sure - though the rollout of mass scale rapid charging is underway already, with multiple companies entering the market.
I apologise for the fuel comment - it was a cheap shot. The situation does seem to vary wildly by location. One of my local garages (Esso) has had no fuel for 3 days, with all pumps coned off. I passed a small independent station today with cars queueing out onto the road, still there when I came past again 20 mins later.
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Back in the 1980s I drove to Yugoslavia for a few holidays (carrying a tent, not towing a van). Getting to Slovenia from Zebrugge required 2 x 50DM intermediate to-ups of the fuel tank at any one of numerous Autobahn service areas.
However, once in Yugo, you had to plan your next trip to at least reach the second fuel station (which were infrequent and so all shown on their road maps). The reason for needing to reach the second, was in case the first had no fuel when you got there. That was not that unusual and I did once have to reach a third to get fuel.
I have therefore first-hand experience of planning for fuel in a similar way now required for long EV trips (or short ones if towing!).
Having little choice, you just had to live with it. It did not spoil the holiday (seemed part of the adventure), but then, unlike the locals, I did not have to face that every day of every year.
Would it be worth it to save the planet? Sure it would - but allowing those of us that will still need a diesel tow car won't kill it either!
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Charley as his name👍🏻
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