Diesel & petrol alternatives? Your thoughts please
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Are you really suggesting this journey could be fitted around the amount of recharge stops you built into your one day. Its not about mindset but practicality
There is also the problem currently, that if more than a few folk with caravans wanted to recharge at services, the wait would rapidly become unacceptable, not to mention a logistical nightmare. I’m sure things will change with better battery technology giving greater range, even when towing. However, we are not there yet and electric towing for more than a handful wouldn’t be practical.
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Whilst there may be some for whom it is a mindset thing there are many others for who it is not.
I posted, in response to your OP and made the point that it seemed you were providing very useful info, and in an even handed way but, if you cannot afford an EV, can't charge it at home and can't do the things you want, or need, to do then that is not much of a choice to my mind.
I fear that I can see the change to mass EV ownership will be more likely to come from being given no choice, rather than being able to exercise choice oneself.
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A&J, I understand what you're saying but caravanning and motorhoming are niche markets, which some can afford and others can't even entertain. We're hopefully talking about developments in these markets, which will be expensive and fairly untested at first but things have changed since the start of this thread five years ago and we are now seeing more progress.
It might be that we all rent vehicles in the future rather than make large financial purchases, who knows?! It's interesting to see that EVs now have more capabilities in relation to our vanning hobbies.
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First to answer Tinwheeler, yes I looked at several alternatives before buying my Mazda but unlike some on this forum I simply can't afford the kind of money people are asking for EVs or hybrids. We are very definitely of the eco-mindset in just about every choice we make from cornflakes to energy suppliers but when it comes to towing, on our budget we are very limited, so we're satisfied we've made the best choice in this department and will continue to try and make a difference in other areas where we can afford it.
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Brue, I would be devastated to have to give up the van, but my comments are related to general car ownership.
I read a brief article about a new Alfa Romeo last week. It will do 38 miles as a pure EV which means that, when I arrive at my nearest supermarket 20 miles away, I will have no choice but to charge it.
I live in a terrace of 12 houses but only 4 of us have parking, and the roads are single track with no pavement into which a charge point could be fitted.
In the last year I visited, for work, 280 blocks of flats but parking is a bit of an 'inverse square' thing as, the greater density of flats to a block, the more likely it is that lack of space for development drove this so, guess what? There is nowhere to park or to provide parking!
As I, and others have said, whilst I could probably afford the financial and logistical problems there are many, that cant and will never be able to.
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Matthew at the farm has just bought one like this.I must ask him if it’s electric
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A&J - Actually - that is perhaps the most relevant thing. The technology works, when it's supported by sufficient infrastructure (As SteveL notes) (including on the road charging - like in Croatia, or not, and home charging, or no) and if you are prepared to make the mind set shift, AND if it's affordable.
It has to be the union of all those components. I have a glass half full view because I can charge at home (and its easy to forget that not all can) and the economics for me were a "no brainer". The technology is sufficient for my purposes, and I am of the mind set where I absolutely want to make it work, so I tune my use to match the capabilities of the infrastructure.
There is pretty much no-where in the UK I would not consider towing the caravan right now. The same would be true for France, NL, DE, BE, Scandanavia, but I never towed there in ICE world, so I don't consider it as part of my game plan (yet).
And as Brue says, the times are changing...
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18 months out of date, but the principals hold true. For an updated list (from this month) have a look at https://electrictowcars.co.uk/electric-tow-cars/
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Not quite sure of your point about the Alfa? The point of PHEV is you can drive until the battery is depleted and then run on ICE. I have a PHEV and on my 70 mile round trip commute it will cover about 40-45 miles and the remainder on ICE. Charge up again when at home.
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So for my own amusement I plug in the route Milan Malpensa/ Venice Marco Polo into ABRP based on my EV with a 75% stating. state. Result tells me I would require 2 charges 23 minutes and 5minutes I think 30minutes at 1 would workto cover 195miles It looks like some people are looking to fail.
On the other hand if she was going to Venice because that were the holiday was. Then my partner would take 2 buses and a train
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Thanks Boff👍🏻. You & ChocT are providing facts rather than the naysayers stories of doom & gloom. It’s refreshing to read & shows how the trailblazers throughout history provided the mapping for our future. When the wheel was invented your ancestors were the-‘wow I like that idea’, let’s give it a go’ types rather the the-it’ll never work, it’ll make my nose bleed’ crowd.
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I think the point is having an electric car is not necessarily a barrier to making emergency journeys. Boff was pointing out that with his car, with 75% state of battery it’s a journey that might take 15 mins longer than a petrol car. Of course there may be a host of other reasons why such a journey might not be sensible.
On Sunday my daughter was coming from Manchester to Milton Keynes by train. Her train turned round and returned to the station just after leaving because of a “serious incident “ at Stoke. Even though my car was on around 70% having used it that morning, I was ready to get in an go and get her if needed (a 270 mile round trip). However, our first choice would have been to use then train network if at all possible, because it would have meant a 2.5 hour wait in Manchester while I drove to get her.
As it was the incident was cleared quite quickly and the train journey was able to resume.Now if my car was a 7 year old Leaf or ZoE with only 80 available miles, and so was only on 50% SoC, it would have taken rather longer to get there and back - making other options preferable - but would still have have been possible.
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"We are coming to visit you today it will be OK to use your electric to charge our car when we get there? "rather than find a charge point
Not that that scenario would be applicable where we live,they would have to find a working charge point
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"We are coming to visit you today it will be OK to use your electric to charge our car when we get there? "
If I need to charge when visiting friends or family, that is exactly the question I ask, along with the statement "I will pay for it". Though, so far, I have never need to charge on arrival, and mostly my friends are keen to see how it works so they can judge for themselves if it is viable for them.
I would always plan to get a charge on route if needed, so that I was not reliant on their infrastructure to help me out.
You make a good point but I think its even more pertinent with that cross Europe journey I described to Northern Croatia. I wonder how many of the 5 night halts use would be willing or able to charge me up again for the following day.
Ask them, and indicate you are happy to pay. Again - exactly what I do. I have just booked a few nights at a CL near Rutland water, and that was a question we asked the owner. "We tow with an electric car. Is it ok if we charge while on site and pay extra for what we use?"
I will probably public charge wile we are away on that trip too, but its not a hard question to ask.
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CT writes:
Ask them, and indicate you are happy to pay. Again - exactly what I do. I have just booked a few nights at a CL near Rutland water, and that was a question we asked the owner. "We tow with an electric car. Is it ok if we charge while on site and pay extra for what we use?"
Whilst searching through the information for many CLs I was surprised by the number that stated "No Electric Vehicle Charging" This is probably not solely down to the cost but their electric infrastructure may not be suitable, especially if more than one vehicle wanted to charge up.
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Yes - its becoming more known, and that is why I ALWAYS offer to pay. I don't expect the CL owner to foot my bill for charging, but on the other hand, If I need to charge at a location I am going to (not always the case) I will make it clear that if I can't charge (and pay) then its not the site for me.
I suspect infrastructure is not the issue. I plug the car into the external socket on the caravan, so I am charging through the regular hookup. That means I am using a part of the van's power allowance. The site would have to cater for all 5 vans to be potentially running 16A (or 10A if a 10A site) all at once. What the source of that load is (kettle, heating, fridge, lights, TV, hair dryer, toaster, electric griddle, car charger) is immaterial.
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Well not my problem if they chose the wrong EV. They did however tackle the situation 2 buses and a train if I remember correctly was what you claimed. It is bit strange whenever I have been on a diverted a flight transport has always been laid on to get me to the original destination.
I am truly sorry if you thought I was insulting your daughter and her partner it really wasn’t my intention. However you really don’t like people answering you back with your my way or the highway attitude, that you have frequently displayed now and in the past.
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Just to add a bit of experience to the arriving at the wrong airport bit, when working we were supposed to fly into Pisa on business but got flown into Genoa. This seemed like a nightmare at the time, we shared a taxi with strangers to the railway station and totally unprepared we got out our Italian phrase books out, found a train and then had an amazing journey down the western coast of Italy, which as some will know is very beautiful.
I would not like to cope with an EV as a first time user in an unknown situation, however using thses types of unuusual situations isn't helpful or productive. It's just another example of inexperience.
If anyone is interested it might be useful to look at Norway and see what they are doing and the incentives they provide for EV use.
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A very valid position. I think I have said in the past, if I were looking for a dedicated tow car for continental long distance towing (300 or miles a day) then I might not pick an EV. (Actually I probably still would, but that just me). My angle on this discussion has always been to shed light on what is possible today, and how you can adapt to leverage an EV for our hobby.
I have an EV as its an awesome car to drive solo, and a very very cheap way for me to have a very high performance, cutting edge car. It just also happens to be a capable tow car, that I can use easily for my style of towing.
When I advertise the fact that I use my EV for towing, lots of folks are interested (not just here but on other fora), have questions, and often identify situations which - for them - would mean an EV is not viable. And - of course - thats fine. I like solving problems, and when people present a challenge to me, that's exactly how I approach it, as a problem to be solved.
The solution may not be to everyones taste, or be viable for everyone, but the solution (if it exists) fits in my framework.
So please don't feel like I am preaching to you (or anyone else) about EV being the only way. I recognise there are a bunch of reasons why for any given individual, it might not be. But for me, it is a very interesting world to be experimenting in, and I am happy to share my findings as I go.
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Interested to understand how you are coming to that conclusion?
From what I am reading, the cars with bigger batteries are all getting homologated? Stress on the drive train is absolutely the last part that I would be worried about. No gear boxes, no clutches, no torque converters. Just a motor or two and a diff or two.
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However although I can see the technology can be made to work I am totally unconvinced about its "green " credentials and am appalled at the scapage of perfectly viable vehicles .
Scrapage of an ICE has nothing to do with EVs at all. A car (of whatever fuel type) will be driven until it's no longer economical to do so. When the time comes that it's MOT fails, or the cylinder head gasket goes, or the gearbox fails, or the oil pump files and the engine seizes, or the timing belt snaps and renders all the valves bent, someone will make a decision to repair it - or not. If not, then the next car they buy to replace it may be an EV or may be an ICE. Most likely (if the car died of old age) it will be something used. That probably means it will be another ICE.
Right now - there are no government incentives to scrap old cars in favour of EV. AFAIK there are no manufacture led incentives to scrap cars in favour of EV or ICE.
In short, there is no force at all to move to replace the existing viable fleet of private vehicles with EV. There are incentives to encourage anyone buying a brand new car to choose EV over ICE (0 VED, no ULEZ charge, low company car tax, small grant for low cost EVs), but they are all unrelated to scrapping an ICE car.
And if we are talking about CO2 emissions, then it's undeniable that for similar sized vehicles, EV has a lower carbon footprint than ICE over its total life cycle. (Even if its charged by coal fired power stations, which - in Europe or the UK - its not).
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