New Site Booking System
Comments
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I believe that the term "speculative" can be a little unfair. Yes there will be people who do book pitches speculatively but you would have to look into why they do it. I have booked a period in Black Knowl for next year on the basis that I want to go there at a specific time. It is a long way from the middle of Scotland but I know if I don't get booked in as soon as the site becomes bookable I won't get a pitch in the dates I need. I have no idea if something will crop up that prevents me from taking the booking as it did this year. Does that make me "one of those people"? There is a problem with pitch availability. It's caused by more members than there are pitches and this has been made considerably worse since last year with more members coming on board. Yes, deposits are good for CAMC cash flow, but not for the membership trying to get a pitch. I've been a member for forty years and liked the flexibility of the booking system but to change to a deposit system is going to cause a fair degree of complexity. And, by the way, I have never in forty years been asked by anyone for feedback.
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I would think that speculative means people, for example, who regularly book several weekends at the same site but only take up a portion of those booked and cancel the rest. I don't think the the comment is aimed at someone who books a two week holiday and for some reason can't take up the booking. What we don't know is whether the Club have drilled down into the individual booking habits of members they suspect of doing this. Given that they have gone to the expense of buying in a computer program to handle the new booking system I imagine they have not done it on a whim. As for feedback I have often had surveys to complete after visiting some campsites. Don't forget members can be both inactive and proactive in making their thoughts know to the Club. I suspect for many the change will come as a surprise.
David
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David, two points....
firstly, do you know the club has 'bought in a computer system'..if so, and it hasn't been done 'on a whim' it's likely to be a package that's the market leader or close to...in which case it should be extremely flexible, considering the many variables within the holiday marketplace...this should prove to be robust....
secondly, there certainly are folk who have decided on a (popular) site and, due to the long lead time to get any sort of time there, will have booked months in advance...unless it's some sort of annual holiday, this may or (more likely) may not line up with real events nearer the time...
so, what's to do?....I know what I did when I wanted to visit a honey pot....I booked two separate visits, one in the spring and one in the summer...it was likely that I would only take up one....but possibly both..
as it happened, we couldn't make the first date so I cancelled well within the allowable period, and we took the second break.
now, am I a serial Booker? have I broken a rule?
is booking two dates weeks apart on the same site any only taking one any different to booking two dates weeks apart on two different sites and only taking one ?
assuming deposits are returned for cancelled breaks within the '21 day' new period, what's changing other than the lead time.
I agree with CY earlier post, this could have been done with one simple tweak of the system and no deposits...moving the date out to 3 weeks would have killed most of what the club are looking to do in a much simpler, cheaper way...
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BB
By your own admission you booked two weekends knowing that you would cancel one of them. So I imagine you could be classed as serial booker but under current T&C's you have not broken any rules? Under the deposit system you could still do the same but, no doubt, having to pay two deposits upfront would be a disincentive? It will be for many but not for all. The problem with doing as you suggest of moving the cancellation period from 72 hours to 3 weeks is that you are still free to book speculatively the only difference being that you have to decide to cancel much earlier which really is not a disincentive. I think there is a difference with a member booking their main summer holiday for two weeks in the summer, so one booking, and somebody that books multiple weekends at the same site with the intention of only taking up a proportion of those bookings. I don't know the reasoning behind the Club decision, anymore than I imagine you do but it seems a major change to embark on if the background information they are seeing from their stats doesn't indicate that change is needed. I am more than happy with the current system but can live with the change if that is all that is on offer, as I am sure many others will. If it does mean members have greater availability I am sure people will warm to the idea of deposits.
David
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Is it to do with cash flow for the business? The finance director will be pleased to have customers paying deposits in advance as they make their reservations.
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I can’t see it making any difference to how we book, we like to plan well in advance for our tours in the UK. The main difference will be that the CAMC won’t be my automatic go to choice, as it was in the past. I would imagine that could apply to a significant proportion of the membership. Wether the CAMC loose bookings as a result, only time will tell. Initially I doubt it will make any difference due to the high numbers still preferring to stay in the UK. In the longer term as things hopefully normalise, I think it will.
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We have only been members since Covid and when we have been on sites they have always seemed as full as this club. Wether they fill up later than the CAMC I have no idea, as we have always booked well in advance. One thing is certain, their current pricing policy for us oldies makes them much cheaper that this club, at more or less all the times we want to use them. Once the they are both charging deposits, the CAMC looses its USP, whilst the C&CC still has a very good one.
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"By your own admission you booked two weekends knowing that you would cancel one of them. So I imagine you could be classed as serial booker..."
For the record, what I posted was this....."it was likely that I would only take up one....but possibly both.."....had other diary timings been better aligned we would have used both...we actually went a 2nd time but in another booking..
my point re the 72 hrs v 21 days is that those cancelled pitches will be available to far more folk...incl those who need a bit more time t9 arrange things (work/kids) rather than just us lucky folk who can go at the drop of a hat.
re deposits ...if they're refundable upto a certain cutoff point, then double booking and dropping one with the valid period (21 days?) won't change much.
either way, how will the club (anyone?) know if a dropped booking is/isn't done for a valid reason?
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Pay when you book, or pay when you go - you still have to pay sometime, and as far as I'm concerned it may as well be when we book. But I realise this suits us as we only have one main holiday a year (with maybe two weekends), whereas those with more complicated itineraries will maybe reconsider.
Tomorrow night we're having a "free" night out - going to a gig we booked 6 months ago. It will feel free as the nearly £100 (2 tickets) left the account months ago.
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Given the perceived speculation on the purpose of the changes made by CAMC, we do appear to have achieved the 'sledgehammer and nut' scenario. The flying shrapnel from the aforesaid nut will, it seems, inflict some unexpected damage.
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my point re the 72 hrs v 21 days is that those cancelled pitches will be available to far more folk...incl those who need a bit more time t9 arrange things (work/kids) rather than just us lucky folk who can go at the drop of a hat.
But it would not stop excessive cancellation which is what the Club is concerned about.
re deposits ...if they're refundable upto a certain cutoff point, then double booking and dropping one with the valid period (21 days?) won't change much.
Depends on the terms and conditions, in any case I don't think many will go down that route when there is a price to be paid upfront.
peedee
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ET
Had the decision been made in the light of COVID maybe that would have been a consideration? However I think this has been on the cards way before. Until or if the Club give us detailed reasons (unlikely) for the decision we won't know and speculation will continue as to the real reasons. I can't see any obvious reasons for the need to improve cash flow unless the cancellation problem is far worse than we think it is?
David
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BB
I wasn't trying to make it personal I was just using your scenario to illustrate my reply. The point about deposits be they refundable or not is the fact that you pay them up front and I suspect many members will be reluctant to do that unless they are as sure as they can be that they will complete the booking. If you have to pay towards something up to a year ahead it does tend to concentrate the mind especially if you are making a lot of bookings?
What happens to deposits under the new system we don't yet have all the details. It suggests that if cancelled 21 days before arrival on site it will be refunded which seems straightforward enough. No doubt the Club will monitor that? What happens if you cancel within the 21 days because of some problem we don't yet know. Perhaps there won't be a refund option (unless the site is closed by the Club or some Government intervention?) Maybe the if the reason is felt worthy enough the deposit might be held against another booking?
David
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With the high rates of pitch usage this year (and last)cashflow would not be a problem at this time,? it may be in the future if members decide that the new booking system is not USP they have been used to or joined for as there are plenty more other options out there as we are so often advised by some posters
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Steve
That could be true of many members if the only thing keeping them using Club sites was the fact that they don't have to pay a deposit. Having said that there will still be major advantages for them to continue to use Club sites as the T&C's of most commercial sites are even more draconian because you have to pay the full amount, usually, 6 weeks before arrival. I imagine the C&CC will be quite pleased as its more of a level playing field between the two Clubs now. When I look for sites I tend to decide where they are and how close they put me to where I want to be rather than who they belong to so since having the motorhome we have used a wider range of sites.
David
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I’m not absolutely convinced a deposit paid but cancelled within 21 days will be wholly refundable. I suspect an “administrative” payment might be deducted, unless very clear proof of why it’s been cancelled can be provided.
I do wonder, outside of a major medical issue, why anyone would need to cancel three weeks before going to be honest. Weather will still be unknown factor, it’s not impossible to get a vehicle repaired within three weeks, so why will folks cancel?0 -
"But it would not stop excessive cancellation which is what the Club is concerned about."
Is that what the club is concerned about, PD? I only recall seeing the club say the changes were in response to our requests and would free up pitches to the benefit of members.🤷🏻♂️
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We have built up a good selection of independent sites & Cls /Cs all over the UK indeed some take a deposit or want full payment up front depending on the period before arrival date.
We use ccc sites occasionally when nothing else suitable is available, paying a deposit isn't a problem for us.
To be completely honest when ever we've booked our stays on CMC sites in the past I tended to book a 2 week block , then adjust which week we actually go depending on circumstances, with the new booking system coming next year obviously that'll stop that.
And have booked nothing with them next year accordingly.
Our usual June 2 week Norfolk CL holiday for next year is booked & confirmed with deposit paid, all other trips will be certainly left till a few weeks before we intend to tour.
The CMC sites actually get less trade from us every passing year.
Deposits or not won't alter that fact.
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.... To be completely honest when ever we've booked our stays on CMC sites in the past I tended to book a 2 week block , then adjust which week we actually go depending on circumstances, with the new booking system coming next year obviously that'll stop that.
I'm alright Jack ....
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Jackie..... actually. 🤭😁😘
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To be completely honest when ever we've booked our stays on CMC sites in the past I tended to book a 2 week block , then adjust which week we actually go depending on circumstances, with the new booking system coming next year obviously that'll stop that.
Why should that be the case, compass? Surely your deposit for 2 weeks will be much less than the full price of a single week, and provided you cancel your other week before the 72 hrs or whatever time HO choose to impose you can carry on as you have done before. Not that I'm condoning your previous actions.
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