UK sites with metered electricity
Comments
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No prob, just introduce a non EHU option at £17.50 less than the EHU option👍
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I get £18.43 calculation result using the 240 volts that is more common around here, though I have seen it drop to under 215 in rural areas at "kettle time". This, of course, pushes up the current drawn by an appliance and can be enough to trip the trip as they work on current not wattage.
Anyone burning propane is emiting CO2 to atmosphere at a rate three times the weight of gas used. So a 6kg Calor cylinder turns into 18kg of CO2. Not much for an individual caravan, but someone with more knowlege than me can multiply up by the number of sites and pitches in the UK to get an annual figure.
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Thank you peedee, I claim brain fade due to age.
However. I still think given the scenario I tried to paint is an extreme one, I believe the problem is not as big an issue requiring the investment that some are advocating and likely to be counter productive.
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Pretty much what I said up thread.
Government and Greens pushing for gas guzzling cars and vans to be off the road , means less tourers. Why would we need the pitches we have now.
The future is more cabins/pods/static vans. Moving from site to site in our electric cars.
The money spent on meters would not be recouped, nice idea and I do think it would be the best way to go but like you said DK who is going to make that decision.
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SeaFarers
I can't agree or disagree with you as we don't know the facts. If the Club would share with us the average pitch electricity usage with us for both summer and winter we would be in a better position to judge. Clearly some members are more frugal in their use than others. Also probably what one member does is possibly not reflective of what the membership does generally. Is it of any help to others if I say that I never leave the heating or water on in the van when we are out but when I return the heating is put on the 1800 watt setting where it stays, although it heats up in minutes. The only time I reduce the wattage is if I know I am on a site with a lower number of amps which is fairly rare in this country. For comparison at home I at this time of year I am using gas and electricity to the value of between £2.50 and £4 a day depending on how cold it is. Would that be an indication of what I use in my motorhome? If it is it doesn't seem too bad but without confirmation by the Club we don't know.
On the point of capital costs it would be large, probably about £200 a bollard which is £200000 on a 100 pitch campsite. On the other hand site bollards are being changed and upgraded all the time. Additional costs might depend of the method of recording and payment method. As a motorhomer you will understand some of our fellow owners can manage on site without mains electricity but currently have no choice, metering would give that choice.
David
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Well I know how much I use because I have statyed on sites both here in the UK and on the Continent which use meters. Typically in the summer months it is 4Kw per day and has always cost less than £1 per day. In the winter using electic heating that can easily increase to over 24Kw a day or £6 to £7 per day. I have seen mention of 40Kw per day on here and one CL owner mentioned a customer using £8 per day!
I would think the Club does not know what the typical pitch usage is for the seasons unless they measure pitch consumption separately from site consumption. Unlikely in my view.
peedee
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I can well believe the higher figure. When we were away during one of the beast from the east, our heating set on 2kw never switched off, never reaching the 22C we had it set at. Add in some kettle, microwave and toaster usage and I suspect our usage would have been well over 40kw.
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So much for 'grade 3 insulation' a boldly made statement throughout the industry....
however, this 'test' (raising the internal temp to 25 deg when it's freezing outside) is only achieved by running the boiler on 4 or 6kw gas....how green is that.
despite what some say on here, 900w is pitiful to try and heat a large MH or caravan when it's freezing outside...
one of the best ways of getting good ramp up then easing back as things warm up is to use MIX....this uses gas (2 or 4 kw) and electric (900/1800w) until the temperature rises and then the gas eases back....to nothing...leaving the electric to maintain the desired temperature...
no need to be switching the unit around re fuel settings, just let it do its thing.
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despite what some say on here, 900w is pitiful to try and heat a large MH or caravan when it's freezing outside..
I disagree, I've now idea about heating a MH and wouldn't resume to talk about them and perhaps a MH with all that glass in front to lose heat out would be pitiful? We have always had a large 6 six berth caravan and after warm up 900W is more than enough. In fact the heat thermostat is often at 3 out of 5 otherwise we're too warm, and yes that was was it was cold enough to freeze the water tap at the bollard.
I am certain you know what you talking about for MH but as you have never owned a caravan or even stayed in one how do you know?
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I would think the Club does not know what the typical pitch usage is for the seasons unless they measure pitch consumption separately from site consumption. Unlikely in my view.
Of course it is unlikely, impossible I would say, as to measure pitch consumption as that would require a meter at the pitch, would does not happen and will not happen for a good time yet. What you saying is I wonder how much a particular room uses in a house? What good is that?
Also there is the slight problem that while pitches remain in one place the people on it will change. One day you will have an outfit using 20Kw , the very next day (assuming same weather conditions) 10Kw? So what is the point of knowing what a particular pitch will use?
But they will know site consumption certainly per month, perhaps even per day? then an average can be calculated and then let the central limit theorem do it's job.
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We have owned caravans, two of them. The first a 2004 Abbey, made by the Swift group, had the old truma blown air system with a convector fire below the wardrobe. This as well as keeping your coats lovely and warm, kept a fairly small van toasty on 900watts, once everything was warmed up, in all but the coldest weather. I don’t know what the insulation level was but the van was old style construction.
Our modern construction much larger 2014 Unicorn Cadiz with Alde heating was much different. Although the heating generally kept it lovely and warm, it did need the 2KW setting in cold weather. Otherwise it wouldn’t maintain 22C day 18C night.
Our MH has a Truma combi blown air, in cold weather 900watts isn’t sufficient to keep it pleasantly warm and the E2 1.8 KW setting is required. As long as the silver screen is used, I don’t think we loose a lot through the screen and front side windows. Overall I think we have less window area than our Cadiz.
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I think what Peedee meant was does the club know the electrical power consumption for all pitches on a site, as opposed to individual pitches, as well as the overall site consumption which would include the offices, site lighting, possibly water and space heating. Depending on the configuration of the electrical distribution system this would be easily achievable and would not require meters at the pitch bollard.
As for outfits using 20Kw or 10Kw that would be impossible. 10Kw would draw over 40amps and 20Kw over 80amps.
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As for outfits using 20Kw or 10Kw that would be impossible. 10Kw would draw over 40amps and 20Kw over 80amps.
How so? the post relates to a days usage, and quite possible to have the 2kW heater running for 10 hours or whatever in the depths of winter.
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Whether you use 900w or 2Kw to maintain a set temperature is irrelevent. What it really means is the 900w heater will be on longer than the 2Kw one. End result is more than likely they consume the same power (Kwh) for an identically insulated van.
Thanks Whittakerr for pointing out the obvious regarding site metering. In terms of consumption we are talking Kwh (units) rather than outright power drawn otherwise I agree even 4Kw would trip a 16A outlet
peedee
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Then the units should be Kw/h which is the amount of power used in 1 hour and not Kw which is a power rating. To be even clearer it should be Kw/h per day, as in 80Kw/h per day.
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Ive stayed in many caravans, actually. Doesnt change my view
Youve twice said 'after warm up'....what do you 'warm up' the van with?
yes, 900w can maintain heat but ill wager it will find it a struggle to heat a stone cold caravan or MH to a comfortable temp when its below freezing outside.
we have underfloor heating, double floor insulation but heating from stone cold is asking a lot from 900w...
Just my opinion.
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We warm up the van with 1900Kw. Normally takes about an hour, after that all 900W even when freezing outside for the rest of our stay.
Yes it will struggle to heat a stone cold caravan but that's why I said after it being warmed up, I thought I had made that clear
Again your outfit is a MH.
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Ours is a truma blown air like your first one but no convector fire and yes it does keep us warm at the 900W setting as I've said. We probably know that our next caravan will have Alde heating but it's interesting what you've said about it.
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Yes sorry I missed out a h in the Kwh. Still the same idea applies.
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Wasn't really that obvious PD to me, and sorry but I can only reply to what you post? Was it single pitches or all pitches? If you meant all pitches then apologies but it wasn't clear, at least to me
I would think the Club does not know what the typical pitch usage is for the seasons unless they measure pitch consumption separately from site consumption. Unlikely in my view
Maybe there are separate meters for pitches and one for places such as the wardens' house/office, shower block? Would it make that much difference? A site is a site.
Are you going to use club sites less now the club isn't thankfully going down the metering route?
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"We warm up the van with 1900Kw". No wonder it warms up quickly...
im sure you meant 1800w or 1.8kw or the EL2 setting?
my point was clearly referring to heating up from stone cold, not after 'warming up'....with nuclear power😉
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lol, yes and 1.8 Kw.
I would say it wasn't clear that was what you were referring to as you posted no mention of heating from cold:
despite what some say on here, 900w is pitiful to try and heat a large MH or caravan when it's freezing outside..,
still you've made it clear it now so all is well
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We have both caravan and a MH. Both run on exactly the same boiler system.
In winter I do as BB described I put the heating on mix to start off with then once it warms up the gas drops back.
Overnight I turn the heating down from 22c to 17c and on the lower 900w setting. This keeps the caravan nice and warm, all but the rear bathroom.
The MH has 'silver screens' fitted to the cab in winter so very little heat loss from there. I heat up the MH the same way as the caravan, overnight it is set just the same.
I do find the MH heating kicks in more overnight.
I have run both on full gas to get things warm and then turned it back to 900w to maintain.
I also carry a fan heater as back up but have used it on occasion when its not worth putting the main heating on but I'd like a bit of warmth. Usually late evening in the shoulder seasons, I use the fan heater as I find it quicker than the main heating unless gas is used.
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Out of interest do you close your inner blinds in the cab as well as putting on the silver screens outside.
I have tried it both ways and I think it is warmer with inner closed and outer on.
Both of the MHs we've owned have had rear lounges where the heating seems to be concentrated. We do have a vent at the front of the van but its pretty ineffective, by the time the heat travels along the tubs its lost most of its warmth and just about all its power. So the coldest place in the MH is by the cab.
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We've never used silver screens, our previous peugeot cab wasn't well insulated so always chilly. The present mercedes cab is much better but we also used to find our caravans could get chilly too, don't think we'd ever be warm at 900w as previously suggested. We'd be up to 2kw in the colder months in any type of van in the uk. The trouble with boxes on a frame is they leak warm air so the heating has to work quite hard to keep a constant temperature and they have a lot of air vents too.
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I would think that insulation plays a part for the same volume though?
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If we were to stop using gas in caravans there would be no need for all the holes in the floor that are there in case of a gas escape but let the wind whistle through. Might save quite a bit of heat.
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