Spanish visa
Comments
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You are right but the French visa appeared to be a stand alone. It makes sense to think that you'll only get a year in France with whatever time you spend there being docked from your 90 day allocation.
We have nothing booked in Europe this year so may let the dust settle and if things are fine then we may get there late autumn. If not then we'll leave it until next year.
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Just thinking about my last post a bit more.
It would appear that if you took, say 4 days in March, to drive through France on a yearly visa you could then spend 86 days in Spain, in theory, and then hop back into France and spend as long as you want in your yearly visa there.
Is that correct? 0 -
Assuming 12 month visa, my interpretation is you could do your 4 days in France, up to 90 in Spain and then the balance (266 days) of the year back in France before the visa expires
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What seems to missed by most posters is that it doesn't matter what each member state does to allow a longer stay within its borders, you can't travel freely around the EU. The 90/180 starts when you enter the Shengen area, e.g. for most , on arrival in France/spain with a caravan. If that member state allows you to stay longer than 90 days, that's OK. BUT if you move around, within or thro' the the EU area the 90 days is applicable, starting from your arrival date. You therefore must depart directly from your arrival country or limit stay in total in EU to 90 days. You don't get 90 days plus the visa extent. Gov.uk clarifies this.
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One always has to apply for a visa for the first country in the Schengen area that one is going to enter and it is then valid for the length of time stated on that visa, regardless of which countries are also going to be visited. In other words, a visa valid for 1 year and issued by the French will allow one to spend the total sum of 365 days in the Schengen area, regardless of how much time one actually spends in France, but the trip must start in France. A 90 day limit doesn't apply anywhere.
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I can’t see that....can you post a link to that specific gov.uk content?
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If you have a visa valid for 1 year, you can stay for one year in the Schengen area, regardless of which country so long as you start in the country that issued the visa. The 90 day limit doesn't apply in conjunction with a valid visa. It only applies if one does not have a visa.
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I'm still confused Lutz. I've just looked on the French visa application website and copied the following:-
France-Visas/
General information/
Long-stay visa
Long-stay visa
For any stay in France exceeding 90 days, you are required to apply in advance for a long-stay vis. In this instance your nationality does not exempt you from requirements.
Whatever the duration of your planned stay, the duration of your long-stay visa must be between three months and one year. In order to extend your stay beyond the period of validity of your visa, you must apply for a residence permit at a prefecture.
During its period of validity, the long-stay visa is equivalent to a Schengen visa, enabling you to move around and stay in the Schengen Area outside France for periods not exceeding 90 days over any period of 180 consecutive days, under the same conditions as if you held a Schengen visa.
It doesn't mention staying in other countries for longer than 90 days.
I suppose the French visa will be the most sought after as it's the nearest place to disembark.
Also trying to find out if you can return back to the UK and then return to France as long as it's within that 1 year visa.
That's the problem with new rules. Different interpretations.
website for France visa
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So, are we saying there is nothing specific in a national long stay visa that permits 90+ stays in Schengen countries beyond the point of entry, but in reality it’s unlikely anyone will notice as long as you leave before the visa expires?
That would make me nervous.
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I suppose the French visa will be the most sought after as it's the nearest place to disembark.
Also trying to find out if you can return back to the UK and then return to France as long as it's within that 1 year visa.
I would say so given the many ports there are.
That could be a sticking point if you are not allowed to leave and return. In the past when we have had to get visas there is usually a clause saying how many times you can re enter.
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This seems to be the relevant Schengen visa:
“Type D Schengen visa or national long-stay visa
It is mandatory for any foreigner wishing to study, work or live in a Schengen country for longer than 90 days (up to 1 year). It allows its holder to travel and stay in the Schengen area outside of the originally chosen Schengen country for periods of 90 days maximum over 180 days and during the entire validity period of their visa. The travel purposes which can justify applying for a category D visa are: tourism or private visits, professional activities to study, to take part in a training program or complete an internship, family reasons.The national visa or type D visa is issued by the consular authorities of the intended Schengen country in accordance with national legislation. Therefore it is necessary to contact the services of the country to know the different conditions and formalities that need to be met. Under certain conditions it can be granted as either a single or a multiple-entry Long-stay visa.”
So, it seems multi-entry may be possible subject to whatever conditions are applied by the issuing nation AND stays in other Schengen nations at any time during the duration of the visa are permitted but subject to the 90/180 rule.
All seems fairly clear to me now. If you want a 90+ long-stay in Spain, a national long-stay visa will be essential.
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“It allows its holder to travel and stay in the Schengen area outside of the originally chosen Schengen country for periods of 90 days maximum over 180 days and during the entire validity period of their visa”
Hi Bill, To me it reads as it’s the whole 12 months?
I think that the confusion is the mention of 90/180 as you can do that anyway.
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It’s ambiguous, but I think “outside of the originally chosen country for periods of 90 days max’ is the key phrase. Otherwise, not sure what the purpose of that statement would be? Also, find it hard to believe that an arrangement would exist whereby any EU country could issue a visa granting long-term access to another. Surely that would negate the point of an individual national having its own visa?
Hope I’m wrong, but the more I read the less I’m convinced that there’s a way around the 90/180 rule that provides the right to move freely around the EU in the way we’ve enjoyed for so long.
I think the only hope is for a change in the rules, but can’t see the major EU players being attracted to that unless they see some reciprocal benefit? Apart from some French, German and Dutch visitors who can probably happily operate within the 90 day arrangement, what would be the incentive?
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In theory, if this 90/180 is still the operative timeframe, one could tweak the arrangements so that you buy a 1 year visa for France, arrive there early March, stay for 2-3 months, wander back through France, come home or even stay there and either return or if stll there toddle off in early September for another 2-3 month stay in Schengen area. Then return home via France.
There must be members who can work around the timeframe if they intend sticking to the letter of the law.
We won't need to worry about it for a while but hopefully we'll be making such arrangements.
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WN we have worked out our next 2 years trips (loosely) including our yearly 3 weeks to Lanzarote in March. We have still manged to do what we currently do staying in the 90/180 days just.
We played with the calendar and delayed some trips or shortened some by a few days.
However if we want to spend a little more time at the back end of the year (we do) this would cause us some issues with the Lanzarote trip. If we could get a visa for Spain this would solve the problem.
We would like to go to Spain from Sept to Dec/Jan then Lanzarote in March. In the Spring 90 days is fine to do what we currently do its just at the back end of the year that is an issue.
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Been doing a bit more research on this 90/180 problem and came across something called a ‘Spanish non-lucrative visa’. If you are successful in obtaining one, you are allowed to travel freely within the Schengen zone. However, it comes with a number of big snags e.g. evidence of financial security - upwards of €32k pa for a couple, private health insurance for at least a year and you must spend 183 days in Spain in order to renew. If you continue to renew, after 5 years you can apply for permanent residency. The biggest snag is probably the requirement to become a tax resident taxable on worldwide income. However, that is subject to a Spain/UK double tax treaty meaning you should not have to pay tax twice on the same income. Probably not a solution to long-stay holidays, but a route in for those planning on living in Spain post retirement and travelling freely in the EU who can meet the conditions and have the perseverance to sort the tax issues out. We have tentative plans for a place in Lanzarote and this might just be the way to achieve it, post Brexit
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I too have been trying to see how our pattern of trips will fit into the new 90/180 rule.
We normally go to Spain via France for 10-12 weeks from mid January depending on when Easter falls, then we go somewhere in the EU for about 8 weeks from late August. Occasionally we may also pop over the channel for another week or so in July, courtesy of Tesco vouchers for Eurotunnel.
Trying to work out the permutations to comply with the 90/180 rule has certainly stretched my powers of mental agility; that is until I discovered this website <Schengen Visa Calculator>
Now it is quite straightforward planning ahead.
Hope this helps.
Jim
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