Coronavirus: Stay or go
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I am thankful it’s just the Police out there. Had it been the military, then the I would worry. Not planning on doing anything wrong, so I find their presence comforting. Not that I have seen any around mind.....
DK, your local ice rink is in the news☹️
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Just seen on BBC News a report that the Scottish Bar Association are concerned about a suggestion that trials could go ahead without juries.
It seems judges are in favour.
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BBC local news has just reported on an Exeter garden centre where, on camera, the owner tore up a ‘enforcement notice’ issued by the council.
He can sell hardware but not plants-yet a neighbouring supermarket can sell plants.
What the guy said made a lot of sense and D&C police have stressed they were only there for community engagement.
I dare say it will get some wider publicity over the next day or so.
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Whilst I agree with much that has been said on here, the majority will abide by the rules and will give the police no reason to use the additional powers. Unfortunately there are always some who either know better or are just bloody minded and don’t give a toss for others. I know for sure if I were the cause of passing on the virus and potentially put others at risk of death I would be devastated and could never forgive myself. Don’t be selfish, follow the rules don’t put our NHS and other emergency services at more risk.
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I said to OH over a week ago that garden centres are getting the rough end of the stick. Tesco, Asda, Morrisons, Lidl, Aldi and Home Bargains are all selling plants and bags of compost yet a family run garden centre has been closed same as Dobbies.
All the supermarkets sell food yes but they also sell household goods, electrical goods, clothes etc. Their businesses are going to be booming while others are going to the wall.
Watching the news tonight and seeing those market gardens with plants that are probably going to end up as compost made me very sad indeed.
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If the Derbyshire police had done nothing it would have been an open invite for the mass public to do the same. If you can drive a couple of miles for a walk you can drive a hundred or so to a beauty spot of your choice and we would be back to busy weekends just like the first one on lock down. The police were right to highlight it as a problem.
peedee
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I don't think TtDA was casting any aspersions against the military, TG. I hope, for all our sakes, that their role is limited to logistics rather than enforcement. Indeed, I imagine they feel the same - it would be a very sad day for the country, and a poor reflection on us, the public, if they had to become involved in law enforcement.
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I was watching a BBC news snipet where a lawyer said that the guidance given by Boris and the regulations as in law are slightly misaligned. For example Boris said only go out once a day for exercise where as the regulation in law have no mention of a set limit per day. Also Boris said you could only go out for one of four reasons, where as the regulations say 'reasonable' excuse, so going to a funeral for example would count amongst others.
I'm just reporting on what he said. I fully keep to the 4 reasons apart from next week's sad outing.
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+1. From what I remember from our induction at RAF Finningley even military police do not have powers over the general public.
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I don't think even I am suggesting there is not a need in the short term but for me the difference is that if it continues for any length of time, especially beyond the initial 6 months we are in danger of losing our liberty and that is what should worry people. Unfortunately we have a bit of history in the Country of some laws having unintended consequences. One example was the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act which was essentially a law designed allowing security and fraud surveillance but Local Councils soon cottoned on that they could also use it for more petty things like monitoring what you put in your waste wheelie bin!!!
David
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According to the BBC website today one of the problems is that the guidance is introduced by way of a Statutory Instrument.
I personally can see no reason for me to ignore the guidance but much of what is being talked about is just that.
There appears to be, unsurprisingly, a great deal of misunderstanding and confusion, and in many cases the media does not help.
Two nights ago on my local BBC evening news the reporter twice referred to 'social isolating' and they also asked a young lady, who with friends was voluntarily delivering food parcels to neighbours who could not get out to shop, if she was complying with the guidance.
So far as the law being covered by safeguards we all of course hope for the best but as a 'realist with experience',rather than a cynic, I have seen examples where people presumed that would be the case and were disappointed.
The Scottish Bar Association have said that they are concerned about suggestions that trials without jury will be allowed and former judges have questioned the way that the Police are operating but is that not what we would expect them to do?
We don't have to agree however!
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We don't have to go far to get even further away from people. We can walk where we want, and even drive down the tracks.
I know we're lucky in that respect.
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Yes you are indeed.
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Morning
Isn't all this really just common sense? The whole point is about reducing risk. Personally driving out anywhere be it a mile or a hundred is an unnecessary risk.
I've lived in total lockdown for two weeks in Spain. The enforcement was very "thorough" and the police were backed up by the army in their job. Dog walking and any form of exercise was limited to 200 meters from your door. Any infringement got you an on the spot fine of 200 euros. A third time it's 1000. Going out shopping with more than one person in a car gets you a 500 euro fine. All seems a bit drastic but I read on the local news this morning that recovery cases of the virus have now overtaken deaths in the southern Murcia region. So, maybe the "stay at home" thing might just reduce that risk and keep more people here to see another day?
I can't wait to get out and about again. Isolation in my panel van camper is claustrophobic and doing my nut, but we're sticking with it. I think someone said upthread that they couldn't live with their self if they were responsible for spreading virus to others, nor could I.
Keep your DNA at home.
JK
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Isn't all this really just common sense?
Hi JK, you would like to think so but, if it is, why did Spain feel the need to use the Army and fines to ensure it happened?
What seems common sense to me may not occur to, you or vice versa, and it seems that there are clearly people that cant abide by sensible advice even when its commonly available!
Just seen a post on another forum from a guy parked on someones driveway after a 1800 mile journey with just one site stop and who will arrive home today and I wondered if you turned left or right?
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Not because I fear the military, they have done a superb humanitarian role around Yorkshire these last few months. To me, anywhere that requires a military presence means that our normal way of life, whereby our (mostly) unarmed police have a good grasp on things, is starting to fail, and it’s the next phase if certain sections of society require a heightened presence. More of a society issue rather than a military one.
Hope this explains, perhaps a bit clumsily expressed.
We had an email from our Chief Constable last week. (It’s a regular thing getting Police Community updates, we signed up to it) Lots of reassurance, keeping us informed. Tells us where main efforts are concentrated. As usual, some 2% of the local population are requiring a great deal more of the Police’s efforts than anywhere else. I have yet to see a Police Officer of any kind around and about our local area.
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Isn't DNA the HQ of the National Dyslexia Association?
Steve
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The proposals for Scotland to hold trials without juries have been withdrawn this morning. Discussions are underway with all interested bodies to find an alternative approach.
Steve
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Places like Spain, France have always had a quasi military police presence. It’s not unusual to see an armed police presence in some countries, some countries have a National Police force, and a local police force. Not so here, which is why to me, it represents another phase.
Dont know if it transfers, but I did a lot of management training throughout my career, and one of the things that kept coming up was the two types of manager, and what type was best in certain circumstances. Normally, you would want a democratic, willing to listen, able to see someone else’s point of view, etc.... type of attitude. Probably our normal way of life in this country. However, if a crisis occurs, then a more authoritative approach, in terms of do this, this and this and we will get through this firm leadership might be best. Dithering and half measures could make things worse, but it does require tempering with humanity and respect. We are getting a degree of this now, totally alien for most of us. Personally, I would have liked a bit more stick earlier than we got, but this country is/was woefully unprepared for such an emergency and change of way of life, so it’s been a bit of a drawn out affair, buying time to try and make preparations. Hence all the stupidity of folks being able to literally take to the hills from the worst areas of cases, and the crazy panic buying. Things in the supermarkets have eased enormously these last few days, and smaller communities are less likely to drowned under the influx of none residents. But some folks are still pushing the boundaries, either through a misguided interpretation of the new rules, or wilful ignorance and selfishness. I count the just too thick to understand in there as well.
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Hi
The use of force was to get the point across which pretty much worked in a short time.
I guess there are bloody minded folk who will disagree with anything just for the sake of it, unfortunately some of them are club members!!!
I turned left. I've isolated at Black Horse Farm club site for the last week. When we leave here it will be classed as an essential journey as we are officially going to our place of work, and being a seasonal worker it is our residence as well. We've been registered in the Cornish healthcare system the last ten years so we're not exactly posing an extra burden there. Just saying
JK
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Police Chiefs have issued revised guidance this morning that commits to only acting in accordance with what the law says, not what sundry Ministers and politicians might wish to see.
'4 E's'; 'Engage, Explain and Encourage; then, as a last resort, Enforce.
So, no roadblocks or poking around in people's shopping trollies. People are allowed to drive to exercise and there is no time limit or limit to the number of exercise sessions per day.
Sensible people will co-operate for their own survival, and Police time should be freed up to deal with the idiots who think it's OK to attend a pub lock in, or to cough over people 'for a laugh'.
The Officer responsible for Lincolnshire's Coronavirus Response has said in the Independent:
Lincolnshire Police was taking a “common sense approach”, adding: “We’re not going into supermarkets and shops and checking what people are buying, we’re not doing roadblocks or stopping vehicles to ask where they’re going.
“Unless government directions come in to say we need to do road checks, or there is intelligence about a gathering, I have no intention of instigating such draconian measures.”
She went on to say that she is one of many senior officers concerned that any backlash to police tactics could permanently damage public relations.
“We’ve spent a long time building up really positive relationships,” Ms Wilson said. “We can’t afford to destroy them at this moment in time because when we come out the other side of Covid-19 we will need to rebuild our society.”
Steve
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Police Chiefs have issued revised guidance this morning ......
"People are allowed to drive to exercise and there is no time limit or limit to the number of exercise sessions per day."
Haven't seen that anywhere, Steve. Is there a link?
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David, here is a LINK to the HEALTH PROTECTION LEGISLATION 2020. You'll see that it has a two year limit but also has to be reviewed before then. As we don't know how this highly contagious disease will pan out let's hope two years will be the absolute maximum for the rules introduced. Even China (who I personally don't trust on the outbreak statistics) has relaxed it's draconian prevention laws in an attempt to bring back a semblance of normal life and they've done this at a fairly early date.
I don't have much interest in the conversation about the law at present I'm much more concerned that people stay at home, keep their distance when out and about for valid reasons, and prevent the spread of Covid19. I think most are trying to follow the present rules.
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Army or not, Spain's lockdown doesn't seem to have worked though ..... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52117883
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It’s the Guardian M https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/31/uk-police-reissued-with-guidance-on-enforcing-coronavirus-lockdown
We see this open to two interpretations.
One, we drive to our local woods, rarely see anyone else on a normal day. Two miles away.
Two. We get the MH out, take it for a run to Peak District, have a picnic on board, go for a stroll, etc.....
Common sense says first option just about morally acceptable, pushing the limits.
Second option, not.
Yet more confusion, muddying the waters. We don’t have the resources to cope as it is. This isn’t going to help.
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