Crowded out
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I'm not a CL user but it always struck me that the regulations for the number of caravans should be linked to the size of the land area available.
How does one caravan per 400 square yards sound? But I daren't tell you which country has that rule of thumb.
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As a regular user of both CLs and CS's, I have a great deal of sympathy for the owners of both who struggle - not to make vast profits - but often, merely to cover their costs. Indeed, I have spent the last fortnight on a CS we use regularly, trying to persuade the owner to put his prices up!
However, the terms of the Exemption Certificate are quite clear and if those terms are widely abused, it is only a matter of time before that exemption granted to both Clubs will be removed - and where will that leave us?
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It’s not uncommon to find CLs with 6 pitches, as they sometimes rotate if grass, or to give folks a bit of choice. It’s also not uncommon to find CLs with a small private site adjacent, and we have used plenty like this. I guess in this instance the planning permission has been granted and the owners have just got on with it. If members roll up and moan, that’s the member not doing their homework and realising that there’s another private site adjacent.
I think you have a bit of a dilemma in terms of charges at Fir Cottage, and am very sympathetic. It looks a lovely site, in a great location and a quite reasonable price at first glance.
It all depends how quickly you want to recuperate your capital costs whilst still coping with your revenue costs. If you put in the services to pitches, or paid extra in terms of buying the property with them in place, then two years isn’t that long a period to claw back that investment if it is a long term project. If it’s the difference between staying open, or closing, then you might have to face a few options. You could apply for planning permission and look at putting in more pitches. You could put in place strict rules banning awning heaters and put prices up in Winter to cover electrical usage, or charge more for larger outfits. You could put in metered usage. Some of these options will incur extra investment which might or might not be feasible. Others are increasing prices to suit your visitor’s potential usage, and this might limit your pitch uptake.
Enhancing the Site is purely down to you, and what you decide to spend. It does look lovely, and I have no doubts that a lot of folks love it, but there are also others who won’t care how much you spend on trees and bird feeders, because they might be out off site most of the time. These folks will look at the bottom line and think an extra two or three pounds per night isn’t worth having a tap, a waste water point and other extras.
We actually carry a bird feeder with us wherever we go, so we have that covered, likewise we are off site every day in our MH, so serviced pitches don’t represent anything extra to us. But there are a lot of folks out there that will adore what you have done, and be willing to pay quite a significant nightly fee to stay with you. Your dilemma is which way to swing. But not adhering to the five vans overnight rule, is jeopardising everything.
I wish you all the best, and hope things work out for you🙂
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No - you are the one missing the point! Go back and read Maddie’s comment following mine. You and owners like you are putting the whole system at risk. When we book a pitch on a CL site we are in effect entering into a contract - we will have a pitch on your site with no more than five vans. You are breaking the terms of that contract. I expect by having more than five vans you’ve also invalidated your insurance. So no thank you - I won’t be coming to visit you, however spacious you think your site is. If you don’t like the terms of certification why are you running a CL site in the first place?
CAMC - why hasn’t this site been closed down as the owner is so blatantly abusing the privilege of the club?
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Any CL that will close down without breaking the 5 van rule needs to be fully commercial to increase profitability. I use the commercial sector with no issues re 6/7/8+, the first time it impacts on my stay I’d not use it again or turn around before paying👍🏻
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Interesting discussion.
I run a recently opened CL, Cherry Cottage also in Dorset, I can assure you that you will not find more than 5 vans on my CL at any time.
The law is clear regarding the issue of the exemption certificate, the CAMC guidance is clear and members expectations are clear.
5 VANS MAX
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I read all of the above with great interest. Last Friday we had a visitor who picked up his grandchildren and took them out for the day as a holiday treat, The car was badly damaged in an accident, family were shaken but not badly hurt, but car was written off, Insurance supplied a small car as a replacement, no tow bar. They should have been on they way home with van last Saturday. but it will now be picked up on Monday. This could have if we had new arrivals over the weekend we could have ended up with more than 5 vans on site. Should I push the overstay van out on the road, or do I turn away a new arrival.?
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We also do not like cramped situations & what I feel is a concern is if having 6 plus outfits instead of 5 invalidates a CL’s public liability insurance or is it just that they are not adhering to their 5van certificate. Accepting emergencies occur now and again and have to be dealt with sympathetically is one thing but allowing more than 5 outfits appears to be happening on some CL’s more often than an emergency basis. See Firs Cottage CL (page6) as well the original post by twocals & other posts. Not a good thing IMHO.
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As Vulcan said no one would complain about a genuine emergency, it is the regular owners fitting in a couple of extra bookings that this thread is about. I use Cls purely for the benefits of only being with 4 other caravans and that is what I am paying for as far as I am concerned. If I find that is not the case while I am on the site, excepting emergencies. then the site owner is breaking his contract with me and I am not a happy bunny.
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Agree - Clear & concise, well said - Good Luck with your CL.
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As Vulcan said no one would complain about a genuine emergency
Totally agree. Many moons I arrived at a CC site in a torrential downpour (think 'the one in to year storm'). I was turned away with my wife and two daughters with such rain that driving was only possible in for short periods due to limited visibility. The warden had phoned a CL a mile away who was full but put me and two motorhomes up on his stable yard free of charge.
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The last CL we used a couple of weeks ago, the electricity was metered, cost worked out at just over £1 per day. With the cost of the pitch at £10 it made it the cheapest site we have used this year.
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After having has confirmation from the club regarding the licence rules regarding a CL it is disappointing to learn that some owners are deliberately flouting the rules. I like many others book a CL because I only want a max of 4 neighbours. I can understand allowing an extra van on-site in an emergency but will avoid booking a CL that has deliberately overbooked.
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Couldn't agree more. I am currently on a metered pitch and have only been using my gas for cooking. My Alde heating has been on 1Kw since I arrived 4 days ago and I have been using an average of 10 Kw per day which amounts to just over £1 per day. If sites want better control over cost which should help keep pitch fees down metering is the way to go.
On the subject of reviewing the 1960 act to increase CL pitches, with the current state of the country I can hardly see parliament finding time to consult, debate and amend the act. It could also be an open invitation to scrap it altogether.
peedee
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Back to being "crowded out". I pass a CL down here which claims a size of a quarter acre, and other which is 3 acres - so one is 12 times bigger than the other. Claims of being "crowded" can depend on where you are.
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Seldom felt hemmed in by other outfits on a CL, even with the full five vans on. More likely on a CL that has HS pitches arranged in a circle, but even then spacing is usually generous. On grass pitches it more a case of how far your cable will reach if you choose one!
I think the “crowded out” description was more related to too many vans on site, and too many folks using facilities. Only time we have felt a wee bit close to other units recently, owner had moved folks onto hardstanding area as it was too wet on grass. But compared with a Club Site, the spacing was generous, and we had been informed this might happen.
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That’s our kind of place.........😁
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I thought that the minimum size for a CL was half an acre. 5 vans in a quarter of an acre sounds worse than Club sites!
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PD, how do you think site operators are going to recoup the cost of installing, maintaining and calibrating meters? They're not allowed to include those costs in the price charged per unit of electricity so it's bound to be reflected in pitch fees.
Some sites levy a fee for use of the hook up point and that fee will include the other costs and not just electricity itself. That is why you think you're getting a bargain at £1 p/n because you're not comparing like with like.
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I was under the impression it was something like half an acre, but just looked through all information about setting up ups CL, and not spotted anything that gives a minimum. Doesn’t mean it isn’t there, I just haven’t found it. Maybe it’s not that prescriptive, might just be a Club advisor with a tape measure ensuring that the minimums are covered. HQ might tell us?😁
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bit like us last week.....on a CS.....In fact, 2 CS, side by side, one owned by husband, the other by the wife.
large hedge and gat separating them, each not affected by the other.
towards the end of the stay, we were the only ones on either CS...
our type of site, too...
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Stupid boy!
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