Crowded out
Comments
-
We like CLs because, like many others, we like the peace and quiet and their location but on quite a number that we have visited over the years there have been more than 5 outfits.The question must be asked why? Is it to make the CL viable, is it because the area is very popular or is it because of a lack of alternative CLs?
We stayed on one in an area of the Lake District which didn't have an over abundance of CLs and was obviously very popular because of its location. This had 7 hard standings (with EHUs) and which on at least one night of our stay were all full plus another outfit just inside a barn and another on the roadside in the farmyard which wasn't actually separated from the CL area. All the units were very well spread out and it didn't feel crowded but it went against the five van rule. If I reported it there is a possibility that the CL could close which would mean one less for me and, obviously, others to enjoy. The farmer could toe the line and reduce the number to 5 which would affect his income and the financial viability so he puts up the nightly fees and we all complain. Nobody wins.
Another CL at the other end of the country could easily accommodate far more outfits. It is a massive field part of which is hard standing and with a total of 10 double outlet EHUs spread over much of the whole area. On more than one occasion there have been 5 outfits on the H/S with a further 2 or three on the grassed area. Again, this is a very popular CL as it isn't far from Dover and is used by many who are using the ferries. If this was to close or strictly adhere to the 5 outfit limits there would be many of us very inconvenienced. They could apply to be a licensed site but that would almost certainly increase the nightly fees or they could close down completely if it was no longer financially viable.
These are just two examples that we have experienced. How many of us, though, have turned around and gone home again or tried to find an alternative CL or site at very short notice when we saw there was more than 5 units on site? I'm guessing not many and certainly not me. Regretfully I think we are all a bit hypocritical. I'm not saying I encourage over booking and like it if there are only 5 units maximum but if the CL is where I want to be and there is enough space and EHUs, complaining about more than 5 units would just cut off my own nose to spite my face.
Personally I would like to see the number of units increased to 6 but only where spacing allowed this. This would make it a more viable proposition for the owner and gives us, the complaining members, an immediate increase of 20% more pitches available on the rapidly shrinking CL network. The rural economy is very fragile and us visiting helps to put some money into an area but we can't do that if the CLs aren't there.
1 -
Some years back I arrived , as No 5, on a fairly compact CL. Subsequently three more arrived, utilising a three way socket adapter for EHU. Whilst I wouldn't get too exercised over one additional van if reasonably spaced with sufficient sockets, I felt this was a bit OTT. I did discover that the owner was something of a serial offender and, having reported the incident, I noted that it was later removed from the network.
Was I the final straw that robbed him of an income or was I a victim of opportunist profiteering? In situations like this and in submitting reviews, I am always conscious that I may be impacting on someone's livelihood.
0 -
I’m more inclined to feel the site owner's behaviour is impinging on the club’s reputation and jeopardising the future of all CLs, CY.
5 -
The past week we have broken the 5 van rule, Last weekend we should have 2 of our visitors leave both were of an age that although fit and well did not want to drive in the high winds forecast, I had no problem in letting them stay, and then a motorhome arrived and said what an appalling drive they had had. followed by another. Personally I had no problem with this.
0 -
But I'd not publicise it if it were my site!
0 -
Some years ago we were on Henley site and it was full,the warden then at 2200 had a caravan arrive that had been broken down (they did phone) but at just turned 2000 a camper rang the bell ,also with mechanical problems and two young children asking "if they could stop" the wardens used their discretion and"found a space for both ,I know this as we were in their awning with them
0 -
Hi all,
Just to clarify the situation we have been travelling home so unable to reply to anyone. The site is Lower Liston farm Dorset. .It was our first visit and will be the last.Four days into our holiday the owner informed us of the impending rotary club visit.Glad we came home.
0 -
Thanks for the heads up, twocals.
0 -
I think you know as well as I do that this is not about discretion or genuine emergencies, It is about serial offenders who show no respect to their customers or the regulations they signed up for in order to avoid getting planning consent.
4 -
Oh, £20 per night!
At that price we wouldn't be using it, way above my site budget.1 -
I’ve just checked out the reviews on here, and on UKcampsites, greater percentage gave it very good reviews. Did notice one other about more than five onsite. It looks nice on Google Earth. However, the lack of being forewarned about a rally would irritate us as well. Mind, it’s happened on Club Sites, never mind CLs........One of those reasons why I telephone if I can and ask a few questions. There’s a cracking response from owner on UKcampsites to a member who sounds like a manoeuvring disaster. 😲
0 -
like the warden not allowing the Swiss member to empty his cassette?
1 -
You speak for yourself - I’m not in the least bit hypocritical on this issue. Some years ago we travelled about 350 miles to a CL site that we had booked months in advance only to find that we were the 9th outfit on site. The owner couldn’t care less and we left the next morning. Of course we complained to the club and the site is closed. A loss to all of us but if owners aren’t prepared to work within the law why set up a site in the first place. I’m tired of hearing about the poor site owners struggling to maximise their investment. What about us! We book sites in good faith expecting certain conditions to be met. That 350 mile journey was for our annual two week holiday - completely ruined.
5 -
I thought you were citing the use of discretion?....obviously not across the board
0 -
Hi All
All CL Sites should only ever have a maximum of 5 vans on site at all times. Having 9 vans on site not only puts your own CL certificate in jeopardy and raises questions about the safety of our members whilst on site but it also risks the Club’s exemption to be able to certificate all of our CL’s. I appreciate some members are happy to ignore extra vans for fear of losing a good site and we work very hard to keep existing sites but we have a duty of care to all parties that the 5 van rule is not abused and that we do not lose our exemption. Any breach of our guidelines is taken very seriously by the Club.
Our CL network has plateaued at this network size for the last 5 years and we are continuously receiving applications for potential new sites and there are many in the process of getting ready to open. When an applicant applies for a CL it is made clear to them that the income from these sites will not be substantial and that they need to take into consideration the cost of setting up and running the site.
As mentioned before, we will happily work with CL owners who wish to extend their pitching by getting a commercial licence from their local authority as well as keeping their CL site wherever we can.
Thanks
Maddie
6 -
This. Thanks Maddie
0 -
Hi Folks,
An interesting discussion. My wife and I run Firs Cottage CL just outside Much Wenlock in Shropshire. We bought it in April 2017 when it was advertised in the sale particulars as a 6 van site. We have been caravanning together for 15 years and only used CL's after first using Club Sites but then deciding that they were too busy for us and we didn't use the extra facilities that we were paying a premium for. The club currently certificate sites based on a few conditions, fresh water and chemical toilet emptying points must be available and no more than 5 vans are permitted. Ehu's, if provided, must be checked by an electrician periodically and if water is from a private bore hole, then that must be checked annually. Our septic tank has to be pumped out annually also. We have to have a minimum of £1m liability insurance.
I think that there needs to be a change to allow 6 vans where space allows CL owners to fit an extra van in. This would give owners a little extra income to cover the above mentioned costs and keep pitch fees from rising too quickly. We are priced at £16 per night but will be increasing to £17 as from 1st Nov 2019. In April this year we had an electric bill of £350 in May it was £260. Unfortunately some guests, despite a sign asking them not to run heaters in awnings, still do. Caravans and motorhomes are consuming much more power than they did 10 years ago but some people still want pitch fees to be at 2009 prices. We regularly have vans with with outside showers for washing boots and dogs, large fridge freezers, underfloor heating, microwaves, air con and some caravans now have integral heaters that heat an awning. Metered EHU's are now being installed on more CL's and guests given 10 free units of power per day. Although we haven't gone down this route ourselves, it is something we'll consider. Then those who wish to consume excessive electricity would pay rather than low users paying increased pitch fees.
We recently had our annual visit from the Caravan Club 'Advisor' to use his own definition but more accurately Inspector. Who always arrives unannounced and walks on to our private property, this year at 3pm on a Sunday as we were about to go out to visit my parents. A call in advance, even on the day would be appreciated. This is in effect a spot check to ensure compliance. We had 6 vans on and I make no apology for it. Even if he had called to say he was coming we wouldn't have hidden the fact.
I know I have veered off the topic of 5 vans but my point is relevant in that 1 extra van would help keep CL's from closing. It would be a boost to the rural economy, which we need in these uncertain times. It wouldn't affect guests staying on these sites in a negative way as they would still be small, quiet getaways. Perhaps legislation at a government level to allow permitted development of 6 van sites.
We have invested a lot of money into making our CL what it is today and we'll continue doing so. We provide fully serviced, hard standing pitches with 16amp EHU. We've planted trees and put up bird feeders and boxes. As caravanners ourselves we strive to give guests the sort of site we would like to stay on. This takes time and money and we love doing it but having the 6th pitch enables us to invest more in the site and cover our increasing outgoings.
We would be happy to have you come and try our CL and see what you think.
Thanks for reading.
Brian and Alison
Firs Cottage CL
0 -
Whilst sympathising with your points re costing, B&A, I’m amazed that you blatantly flout the terms of your exemption certificate.
If you want 6 units on site, you need to apply to the local authority for the correct permission rather than piggy back the 5van certification awarded by the club.
Metering of electricity is another area where you will be tied hand and foot by regulations.
8 -
Hi, You are missing the point in the post you are responding to. He is stating that he would prefer to see only 5 vans on CL's but thinks that if space allowed then going up to 6 vans would bring benefits to the fragile rural economy and help owners in an uncertain environment where more CL's are closing down. This wouldn't affect the enjoyment of guests and these would still be quiet sites. Your experience of 9 vans on the CL you visited is a flagrant abuse of the rules I accept.
There is a CL I know of, I'll mention no name, who have just won an award in the CL of the Year competition and who have 6 serviced hard standing pitches on their CL. Just over the hedge from this is an 11 van commercial site and this seems to be allowed under the current Club rules, as long as the 6th pitch is merely a waiting area for someone turning up early.
Regards
Brian
0 -
It may be that all inclusive fee maybe more profitable?
0
