The lure of ehu
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Good post, HD. I couldn't agree more. In fact, I guess we probably use less electricity than most. Does that bother me? Do I get depressed about subsidising others? Not in the least! I would hate to be metered for electricity but I'd be quite relaxed about the option of non EHU being offered to what I reckon from experience on sites to be the relatively small number who are happy to go without.
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Evening
As you've stayed on this site on the cc&c rally (cheaper than I pay). you know that this and most sites get cheaper the longer you stay. The same electric allowance applies to all tariffs though and that is 4kw per day. Anything over that is charges at 35 cents per kw per day. Not sure what my pitch fees have to do with anything as they also vary according to pitch size.
JK
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Well, I am happy to admit that our use of electricity does change when it is metered.
In say November or March, with Alde heating running all day, though turned down on the thermostat when we are out, and HW left to tick over, but using the van shower and washing up in the van, if it is very cold, we can get through up to 40kwh in 24 hours. More usual in spring and autumn is about 30kwh. Our van is 11 years old, so not as well insulated as newer vans.
We know exactly how much we are using as I have installed a device that measures and records our consumption.
We have spent quite a lot of time touring in Germany and Austria, where metering is common and the kWh price is high compared to UK, the usual charge is 60-75 euro cents.
So 30kwh would be 18- 22.5 euros per day. However with ACSI we get some included in the site fee, 4kwh I think, so that would cut it to about an extra 15-19 euros, which is still as much again as the site fee.
This is obviously very undesirable, so we change our habits. We leave the fridge on electricity, that alone will use the 4kwh, but we cook on gas, we heat with gas, we turn the heating off when we go out, and shiver for a while when we return. The HW is not left on, rather turned on only when needed, we use the dish washing area, and I use the site showers. By doing this we can cut our electricity use to a max of around 8kwh per day.
This of course means we use much more gas, but with refillable bottles it works out much less expensive.
If it was a UK site charging say 15p per kWh, the electricity cost would be less....more like £4.50 per day, but using gas would still work out less expensive.
Yes, quite a hassle compared to hooking up and forgetting about it, but you soon get used to it.
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if you want to worry about a few pounds compared to the cost of the holiday and/or want to rough it then I suppose you have to get used to it, and please carry on, just don't fore it on the rest of us. I don't want the cost of sites fees to go up.
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Our normal 90 nights each year at say £3 per night is £270 per year. Now £270 might be a "few pounds" to some but its a considerable amount to others.
Using gas and solar is merely using alternative power sources, not "roughing it", everything works just fine. Many manufacturers are now fitting solar panels to caravans and motor homes to make them less reliant on EHU.
No-one, as I recall, is forcing anything on anyone apart from club sites where you are mostly forced to take and pay for EHU whether you require it or not. When EHU was first brought in in the 80's, you could choose to have it or not, even on club sites. All that is required is the ability to opt out of EHU for those that choose to, with an appropriate reduction in fees resulting in a proportionate reduction in the club's electricity bill.
I don't foresee that this would result in site fees going up, it may actually benefit the club by reducing demand on the EHU system.
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Cornersteady was referring to metering Justice and not opting in or out of EHU. If there were metering then prices would no doubt increase to cover its installation.
Many sites don't offer the option of EHU or non EHU. Some sites do offer non EHU grass pitch.
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Ah yes, you are correct. I do feel, however, that in our hobby, we have become too reliant on electricity as a power source. It never used to be like that. The price per KWhr is steadily increasing, and any campsites electricity bill must be increasing massively too. I don't believe that we are anywhere near what the charge will be in a few years to come. It may double quite soon or worse. It has become a huge proportion of the overnight site fee and yet we are able to offset that by use of solar and gas but most choose not to. Many manufacturers fit solar as standard, refillable tanks too on many motor-homes and gas bottles for caravans. I merely welcome the opportunity for those who can reduce the reliance on electricity as the main power source to do so, and suspect that the desire to do so may also increase as site electricity charges continue to rise.
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no you're not unique, Boff
if we're on a pitch with inclusive electric I won't think about what's turned on, except to ensure the trip isn't blown..
however, on metered electric I'll usually use gas for the 'big stuff' (heating, cooking, hotwater) and try and keep the leccy for battery charging (although we have solar) and hairdryer
so, I am definitely less 'careful' if included....after all, I've paid for it... but, in reality, we're still not that wasteful.
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you can't present the 'real facts' until you compare the amount of electric used on a site when it's 'included' against that used when metered.
i find it quite incredible that an organisation like the club seems not to want to reduce its horrendous electric bill (apparently up 25% this year) which directly affected site price increases as reported by Ro.
yet, whenever there is a suggestion about taking measures to bring these costs down, for every one, the cries of dissent ring loud.
obviously, there will be an capital investment to reduce revenue costs, this is how business works, long term..but no one seems interested in the long term.
so, what do we do then, allow costs to continue to spiral up and up, taking prices with them, pricing some of the less well heeled members off club pitches?
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but they are going up as a direct rise in the cost (and usage?) of electricity....costs up by 25% according to Ro.
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Perhaps it is time to reduce the capacity of individual EHU's to 10 amps or even 5.
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We once went to an all you can eat banquet where it was £10 to get in and the amounts on some peoples plates was obscene. It was the same we've paid for it so we can have as much as we like mentality. Now I'm not suggesting that anyone on here is wasteful with electricity usage, but having a 16 amp supply included or indeed free as some would call it does nothing to promote frugal use in my opinion.
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you can't present the 'real facts' until you compare the amount of electric used on a site when it's 'included' against that used when metered.
You also cannot compare the real facts when talking about being economic on metered leccy when touring abroad compared to usage within the UK and its much lower resale rate.
Given my usage and the rate of charges in UK it would not affect my usage in the same way as it does not at home.
Comparison is difficult anyway when folk are using a variety of sites but I accept that as Justus says there are savings to be made for those equipped to take advantage of them on some sites. The only sites that I come across with optional EHU provide non-EHU on grass. I don't generally book grass.
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I have been on sites with 10 amps in cold and snowy weather without problem. Doubt it would cope in the occasional -14c temps we have encountered rarely. Generally though suspect that most users would use as much on 10 amps as on 16 amps as for us it would just mean that the boiler was running longer on 10 amp to produce the same heating levels.
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Given that the club is really in competition with the "chain" providers such as Morris, Haven, Parkdean etc who all make big play of full facilities (including 16A EHU), rather than individual private sites, I think there is little chance of any change to the current practice. As, I've said many times, I can go along with offering a non EHU option to those who want it for a small reduction. That would certainly be quicker and easier to implement than a metering system. Interesting, though, that those who are advocating metering or non EHU now seem to be the very ones holding their hands up and saying they are more profligate in usage when the EHU is included! Curious philosophy to me!
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Given that the club is really in competition with the "chain" providers such as Morris, Haven, Parkdean etc who all make big play of full facilities (including 16A EHU), rather than individual private sites, I think there is little chance of any change to the current practice.
I suppose that you could consider C&CC a close competitor that allows non EHU on some grass pitches. They cannot compete for me however as I would only use them when a CC alternative was not placed as conveniently and then not based on charges etc. For some caravaners it is the other way round.
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examples usually are for education and for following?
btw we're on the same page here about metering
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he has set out a careful example of how his own consumption changes on metered sites and incidentally it corresponds with those of us reporting who have actual experience of it
It is a good example regarding over their and given the rates per KW he quotes a different kettle of fish altogether David
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Having been on metered CLs it does hone your mind to the costs involved and you don't have to hook up either. So there's a bit of choice which is what I would prefer in the long run as I can see fuel prices increasing far more than they used to do. Like most if we've got leccy we certainly use it without much thought.
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well lets see, an increase 25% of £20 = £5 per night, so over a year's worth of club sites is? wow , what is that as the percentage of your or one's outfit and holiday costs? I just pay to use my outfit, but if that increase is too much for 'one' then as people keep saying there are cheaper sites out there.
But 200+ sites with an average of 100 pitches (too high?) per site, that's about 20000 bollards, now at say £20 per bollard (too low?) that is £400,000. Then all the cost of the equipment needed per site for the warden's to read all those meters and get payment adding to warden's workload.
Where and how will the club get that money? they can't get it back from the money from the electricity sold (decrease or not) so the club will have to use the money it has now, well that's your let's remodel for some cheaper pitches for MH gone isn't it? I'd rather the club spent that money on more HS pitches, refurbishments or towards newer sites.
Or the club could get the money back by even higher fees, and for what?
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But for those that done't like gas? Also gas is free is it?
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how will that save anything. A Kw hour is a Kw hour no matter what the amps? My awning heater will run on 10A just as well
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indeed and they are free? Do they self install themselves on bollards, is fitting costs free?
We had a smart meter installed at home last October with a little tv set that tells us how much we are using, costs, annual use, daily use...well it would but after a few days it got switched off and it is now gathering dust
The only good thing is that it send the reading direct to the supplier by sim card.
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