Club rules outdated
I have been member for over 10 years, and we have just been away with friends for lovely weekend camping at Grafham Water,
However we all thought that the rigid rules for lining up the caravans to the peg is outdated, and the layout of pitches and caravans in this way looks too regimented and boring. It also results in everyone having to look at the Wastemaster and Aquaroll plus any other pipewort etc of the neighbouring vans.
This rule of lining up to the peg is not limited to the site we were at, but having also taken the caravan to many parts of France, Switzerland and Italy over the years it is apparent that there should be more flexibility.
Why shouldn't I be able to place my caravan across the pitch with my mover and have the water and waste hidden away at the back of my caravan?
We had 7 children with us in our group with girls and boys between ages 11-16. All of them felt that they were not really welcome, which is a shame because this use to be a really popular family site when they had the Swimming Pool. When we arrived we were asked to ensure that if we used our bicycles we should follow the flow of the one way roads, even the smaller children were asked not to cycle the wrong way around the site.
No ball games were allowed, and there wasn't an area to allow the children to play with other than a couple of small swings.
It really feels that some of the rules are outdated and the club is trying to appeal to the retired generation (which is also evident in the club magazine advertising). The younger generation are our future and the Caravan and Motorhome club sites need to encourange and welcome families, it's not after all the SAGA Camping club.
There are a couple of sites now with pubs and restaurants, but has anyone thought of adding coffee shops and maybe even a games room (table tennis, table football, pool tables etc) to keep the younger generation interested and wanting to buy a caravan and come back as a member in the future?
Ian
Moderator Comment - As this is a question it should be posted in the Discussion Area so I have moved it for you.
Comments
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Why shouldn’t you be able to pitch sideways on your pitch? Because the system is designed to provide constant and safe distances between units in the event of fire.
The requirements are that there should be a 6m gap between facing walls of caravans/MHs and, although awnings and cars will be in this space, there must also be a 3m gap between cars, awnings and ancillary equipment. That is why we are asked to place either the offside rear or the nearside front corner to the peg. It maintains that spacing. You can pitch other ways with the warden's permission if he/she checks and agrees the distances are OK. I'd rather have a bit of regimentation and safety, rather than be at risk with vans pitched higgledy-piggledy.
Adhering to the one way system on bikes is another safety measure. Would you want your child to cycle towards an oncoming car? Many children exceed the speed limit on sites which is another hazard.
Ball games are never allowed on the pitching area of sites to prevent damage being caused to units, or people. I guess there’s not thought to be much need for play areas at Grafham in view of the nearby reservoir and leisure area.
Whilst I understand your idea about providing coffee shops and the like, these things have a cost and would push site fees up which, in turn, could cause people to go elsewhere. Everything provided on site has to be reflected in pitch fees, it’s simple economics.
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wot he said
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I drive slow enough that should any young child be ennoying them selves & have the temerity to cycle the wrong way I'll be able to stop. A bigger cycling problem are the older lycra'd louts that should know better & cycle a little slower ..... as per last week at Bunree
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why should you want to on a club site or indeed in any situation. Some rules are laid from on high, like speed limits and we are stuck with them, but I assume you enter a club site of your own free will? so why enter any site with a certain set of rules an then complain about them or make comments like that?
Btw why didn't you reply to TW as well, all I was doing was agreeing? selective posting there MM?
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Whatever our opinion of rules, MM, they are a fact and, if we use club sites, they are what we’ve agreed to abide by.
The fact that you are pitched sideways bears out the point I made about alternative ways of pitching being OK if the warden agrees which proves flexibility exists within the framework of the rules.
I was trying to explain the reasoning for said rules to Hawthorn as it appears he/she doesn’t appreciate why they exist.
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I though coffee shops were the only thing making money in the High Street....(apart from charity shops)...they're everywhere..
perhaps the club could do a deal with one of the major players to install them at all sites and make a bit of money off the franchise while providing a service....
bit too modern for the club, I suspect....and as for a games room with a table tennis table....? we are pretty keen on TT and have a table at home, anyone know where we can visit a CC site with one?
one of the most popular facilities we come across on continental sites is a (hard court, all weathe) ball games area.....an enclosed space where kids get together, pick teams, play football or basketball, well away from our vans and then come home nicely exhausted after a couple of hours with their new friends.
the thing is, the OP has seen the light of other sites with their more comprehensive facilities and obviously feels that the club is missing a few lumens....
the question is, does the club want to attract families to sites but then provide no facilities for the kids to let off steam....
ISTM, just about every site has space and facilities for dogs (who don't pay) yet there is rarely decent provision for teenagers (who do).
yes, we have to abide by the spacing rules (although I've never felt 'unsafe' on sites that are a little more relaxed in this area) but I guess the OP feels that club sites, in an effort to squeeze in as many pitches as possible yet maintain spacing, end up looking the same.
some of the more 'informal' sites like 'camping in the forest' acheive the same spacing yet have a much more 'relaxed' feel compared to the 'same old'. ok, they may lose a space or two but, for them, the cake is worth the candle by offering a different ambiance.
yes, folk don't have to join, but members are allowed to pose questions on their own forum and to encourage debate.
just because something has a.ways been done in a particular way, doent necessarily mean it's the best way, especially if the club itself is trying to make itself more attractive to families which could be done without costing a fortune nor compromising spacing.
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The 6m spacing rule is merely a reflection of planning regulations within the UK
Density & Space between Caravans & Caravan units
Subject to the following variations, the minimum spacing distance between caravans:
• made of aluminium or other materials with similar fire performance properties should be not less than 5 metres between units, 3.5 metres at the corners.
• For those with a plywood or similar skin, it should be not less than 6m. Where there is a mixture of holiday caravans of aluminium and plywood, the separation distance should be 6 metres;
• where there is a mixture of permanent residential homes and holiday caravans, the separation distance should again be 6 metres.
The point of measurement for porches, awnings etc is the exterior cladding of the caravan.In my opinion, a one way system (for all types of vehicles) ensures a safe environment for all on site road users, and a ban on ball games near caravans prevents any accidental damage from over enthusiastic and sometimes unskilled players and or potential claims for very expensive repairs as a result of damage.
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We had 7 children with us in our group with girls and boys between ages 11-16. All of them felt that they were not really welcome, which is a shame because this use to be a really popular family site when they had the Swimming Pool. When we arrived we were asked to ensure that if we used our bicycles we should follow the flow of the one way roads, even the smaller children were asked not to cycle the wrong way around the site.
No ball games were allowed, and there wasn't an area to allow the children to play with other than a couple of small swings.
The site is one of those in the Tourer Explorer Scheme, so it not really fair to say the club don't provide anything for younger kids. 11 is perhaps towards the top end of the intended age range, but the cache clues at Malvern seemed difficult enough to me. The older ones could perhaps be trusted on the good cycle route around the reservoir.
Full details are available HERE, however this is an extract.
There’s loads going on in 2018; new activity booklets, club cache, our wildlife art competition, the Ultimate Tourer Explorer challenge and The Great Playweek Picnic is back. Take part in Playweek from 30th July to 5th August on selected Tourer Explorer sites.
Giant games
All our Tourer Explorer sites have 3 giant games available for you to play – have a go at Connect 4, try your luck at Dominoes or test your aim at Hoopla. Giant games, huge fun!
Tourer Explorer Club Cache
When you get to your Tourer Explorer Club site, ask for the clue sheet for Club Cache. Then go on a treasure hunt to find a box of goodies!
Where are the Tourer Explorer sites?0 -
...but families also contain children in their teen years and it's these that can have the most energy to burn, and are probably the ones least catered for...
a decent hard court and a couple of table tennis tables (where provided) are generally fully occupied on all the 'family' sites I visit.
far better to get kids outside and playing together than a 'games room' that keeps them insode on their phones and play stations....etc.
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I agree with Justus entirely.
Anybody who has used a number of club sites will realise that, generally, they don't provide swimming pools, bars, cafes, fully stocked shops etc. Many non CC sites don't provide those things either. It might seem that, overall, such provisions are a niche product for those members of the caravanning fraternity that seek them out. Some seem to give the impression that this club is 'the odd one out' which is far from the case. The CC is pretty much mainstream in this regard and provides a product that compares favourably with similarly targeted sites in the private sector IMO.
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+1
If you want that type of stay with then seek out the sites that have that.
Perhaps don't try and change club sites to suit your preferences but go to where they are fully met?
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We started caravanning when my two were pre/early teens.
Provision is pretty dire but it’s not easy to match the requirements of teenagers. I rarely managed
i got involved directly with the club on this issue a few years ago in response to a survey. I suggested a few small, low cost, low impact changes but as far as I’m aware there hasn’t been any uptake.
The attitudes of other campers to teenagers can be appalling and I’ve witnessed it myself. My two were fairly oblivious to the glares as they walked quietly to the showers but I followed behind them and saw it for myself. There’s nothing the club can do about changing these attitudes.
The tourer explorer initiative is a bit of fun for primary age children but isn’t really aimed at young secondary age. Ball games are ok for some but not others. Kicking a ball about wasn’t high on the list for my kids and their friends.
A sheltered area to ‘hang out’ away from the glares worked well at a site we used once. Cleverly the site set up a hut with a drinks and snacks machine. Grass area outside, few benches inside. Worked well
edit: agree with EasyT that the club is not unusual in its level of provision
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My sympathy is with the original post. My grandchildren in the11-16 age range would run away from home if we suggested taking them to the average sort of Club site.
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Personally I tend to suspect it's a bit of a wind up. Seriously, are they complaining about looking at the plumbing on the adjacent van? Or perhaps don't want it to appear unsightly to others.😂
Why shouldn't I be able to place my caravan across the pitch with my mover and have the water and waste hidden away at the back of my caravan?
Wouldn't the car mask it a lot of the time.😀
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I think it’s serious, Steve. It started life as a story and people don’t generally put wind ups in stories when the forum is a much better place for them.
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and the people behind your pitch (and that does happen) will see your aquaroll and wastemaster?
It also results in everyone having to look at the Wastemaster and Aquaroll plus any other pipewort etc of the neighbouring vans.
Having to look? forced are they?
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BB, New England Bay had T/Tennis in a games room when I was last there, great for Kayaking too.
PS-it was a few years since my last visit mind.
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You mentioned a ball games area on continental sites. In the UK these are called MUGAs (multi-use games areas) slightly bigger than tennis courts they are hard surfaced and used for tennis, small football areas etc with the various lines painted on them, nets provided etc. You'll find these in many towns and villages, making provision for all ages.
At present the club appears to aim for as many pitches as possible on sites, I am sometimes shocked at the amount squeezed in during the main season, (even with safety compliance) and this seems to be the over-riding aim. However I often feel the balance of profit over general social provision has been lost. People have to ask themselves what they want on sites, are they just for parking up or should they provide more for families generally especially if they are the future of the club.
The OP mentions the placement of vans, which has over riding safety considerations but possibly the design of some sites could be better considered in the future to include the needs of younger members.
There are an awful lot of safety rules regarding what families can't do but very little in the way of what they could do if provision was there.
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The CMC rules are what their customers have signed up for. Like the rules or not, all those rules have to be obeyed. So if people feel that those rules don't suit their lifestyle or their age group, they are free to use alternative camping organisations which better suits their requirements.
K
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I agree.
Look at the recent refurbishment of the Buxton site. The play area has been replaced with pitches and now has no provision at all. Buxton makes a great holiday base for a family but removing the play area sends out signals that families aren’t wanted.
Are we moving to a situation where such facilities are focussed on tourer explorer sites with limited or no provision elsewhere?
I don’t mind looking at someone else’s aquaroll or wastemaster by the way
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Yes they can go elsewhere K, but wouldn't it be good, whilst sticking to the said rules, if they were keener to use club sites and looked forward to visiting them. I was interested to hear about the points raised with the club by JayEss.
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And Troutbeck Head (TT and pool), Scarborough.
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Plenty of room for ball games at this CAMC site. You can borrow boules from reception, however need to provide other types of amusement.
Before anyone says, where are the kids. It was taken this morning.
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There was nothing too ground breaking Brue. I pointed out that teenagers tended to find places to hang out and that it was better to create a suitable location than have them find their own. The odd gazebo with a bit of space around it would fit the bill.
The club don’t seem to like to leave odd spaces any more. If there is SLOIP on a site they’ll glamp or tent on it.
I can’t remember all the issues but there was nothing outstanding. I just suggested they looked at teenage behaviour on site as part of the design process. Provision of spaces for ball games is a lazy way to get through a box ticking exercise.
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