Load margins, what do you need?
Comments
-
If the instantaneous dynamic loads are maybe three or four times the static axle load rating then a mere 50kg or so of overload shouldn't break the camel's back. I would expect at least 100kg of constant overload would be necessary to do that, and even then only on bad roads.
0 -
The plate underneath the caravan will undoubtedly be that of the chassis or axle manufacturer, not that of the caravan manufacturer, so it's not really of any significance to the end user, in other words to people like you and me.
If the caravan is type approved by the caravan manufacturer to 1400kg then it can't be uprated to 1500kg even if it has a 1500kg axle.
0 -
yes, it can be the same with MH...for example, a typical Ducato (light) 3.5t van would have a max front axle of 1850kg and a rear of 2000kg.
while many of these vans run at 3500kg, typical upgrades are to 3650kg or to the max sum of axle weights, of 3850kg....neither MTPLM upgrade changes the axle limits.
the issue for TG (and many others, no doubt) is that 'going for a bigger van' affects (may affect) the tow car in use....ie, an expensive time...
0 -
Bailey make caravans in Australia - some models are the same as in the UK, but the payload and 'add-ons' are quite different. The pictures of the caravans I have seen come with an air conditioning unit and a wind out awning. I think this is included in the MRO and then there is a user payload of 3-400kg. They are obviously a whole lot heavier and probably built on a different axle/frame. I would quite happily buy one of these heavier models for over here. I could still tow one with my Disco.
David
0 -
You can sound like an old-you-know-what any time you want TW
but you're right.Did you notice the article in this months magazine regarding second hand vans for sale? The Swift Corniche from 1997 had a payload of 360 kgs. You can only dream of that figure these days, well, over here you can.
0 -
I think part of the problem boils down to the NCC's practice of arriving at a calculated MTPLM based on an industry minimum standard (BS EN 1645.1) that was introduced a few years ago although there is no requirement to limit the MTPLM to such a low value other than to make the caravan more attractive to owners of smaller cars. Before BS EN 1645-1 was introduced, the manufacturers set their MTPLMs to suit demand, and that resulted in much more realistic values. There is absolutely no reason for them not to continue to do so, but they prefer to stick to the minimum standard now that it is there.
1 -
agreed, but what is happening, certainly in the MH arena is that less and less is being declared in the MIRO in an attempt to make the payload sound more...
some now include no water at all (how can a MH be in 'running order' bone dry?). the next thing will be to 'omit' the drivers weight....
sirely a caravan should have a battery fitted as std and its weight included in its MIRO....
mind you, this wouldn't do anything for the MTPLM as you say, but surely we need to honest in how vans are going to be used.
many caravaners and MHers are hopelessly unaware of what all these different weights mean and I'm sure some end up purchasing something that isn't fit for their use....
manufacturers are to blame for producing products that are unfit for purpose and dealers are to blame for encouraging customers to buy them in this state...
0 -
I am actually lying down in a darkened room....
...but not because of your post, but thanks....
Im two hours ahead of you and about to go for my dinner (in an hour or so) in the specialist Asian restaurant at our hotel.
secret location, lol......but hot, friendly and by the sea.....in the sea, actually....and not on a boat.
0 -
What is and what is not included in MIRO of a motorhome is covered fairly well in BS EN 1646-2. It certainly includes water in the tanks. As far as caravans are concerned, their MIRO is defined in EN 1645-2. As not all caravans have a battery and even if they have one it is seldom factory fitted, the battery is not included in the MIRO.
0 -
it's very clear that, while what you say may be true, manufactuters do still quote MIRO weights without water, or a number of ltrs for 'travelling' (say 20 rather than the usual full tank).
from memory, Swift, Elddis and AT quote tanks as being empty.
certainly, I found this when researching their (swift and AT) 8m+ vans which purport to run on a 3.5t chassis.....with only 200kg of 'payload' if a tank of water was added, the van would be virtually overweight on the rear axle.
perhaps manufacturers just have to make it clear if they are are deviating from the 'rule' you quote.
certainly Rapido, Hymer, Carthago or any other number of foreign makers will be quoting whatever they like.....but they do say what it is they are (or are not) including.
here is the Swift MH disclaimer from their website.
The Mass in Running Order is the mass of the unladen vehicle including a 75kg allowance for the driver plus engine coolants and 90% of the fuel tank capacity and 1 x 6kg Calor Lite LPG cylinder.The MRO is calculated with the fresh water tank empty. If you travel with water in the fresh water tank then the payload will reduce accordingly.
Please take care to ensure that you have allowed for the masses of all items you intend to carry in the motor caravan, e.g. passengers, optional equipment, essential habitation equipment and personal effects, such as clothing, food, pets, bicycles, sailboards, sports equipment etc.
0 -
I went out to look at my Eriba - 820kg empty and 1200kg full. I can push it when it's empty and can't when it's full - it's the big payload that defeats me.
0 -
I don't have to push mine, I have a car that tows it.
All I can say is anyone (other than families) that cannot stay within their payload is taking too much. The two of us with a 4 berth single axle find it quite easy to be within its limit, a trip to the nearby dockside weighbridge proved this.
0 -
....and here is Autotrails get out....
"Please note: All weights quoted are with all water tanks fully drained. Should you choose to travel with your fresh water tank full you must amend the other weights accordingly."
so, despite their being an EU 'directive' Swift and AT (and almost certainly others) are getting around it by printing this sort of stuff at the bottom of page xxx of their brochure...
no doubt, no one selling £50k+ worth of van is going to risk the sale by introducing 'payload' (or lack of it) into the conversation.
are caravan salesmen equally backward at coming forward on this subject......almost certainly.
years ago, it was abundantly clear what MIRO included.....driver (75kg), 90% fuel/gas/water....These days it's whatever you can find in the small print....if you're lucky.
0 -
Biggest problem is everything including the kitchen sink seems to appear from caravans pitching up, a bit of thought needs to go into what is practical to take on a holiday, more so caravans than motorhomes.
If you purchased a sub 100kg payload caravan, or added accessories that brought it down to an unacceptable level then its your mistake in what you purchased and no-one elses.
0 -
But all the time UK people want all the bells and whistles in their LVs and still have the 6 berth and tow with a Ford Escort or VW Golf or drive a 6berth Motor caravan and keep within 3500 kg weight then the manufacturers are going to try to "satisfy?" that market,
0 -
Whichever, it surely means taking a sensible amount appropriate for the van purchased.
0 -
"If you purchased a sub 100kg payload caravan, or added accessories that brought it down to an unacceptable level then its your mistake in what you purchased and no-one elses"
Clinically of course it is, but not all coming to this hobby are as savvy, even some in it already must be lacking in that area.
The brochures don't paint a picture of a minimalist holidaying style, IMO the very opposite.
We simply have to dismiss most caravans we check on, as we seek more than a "week-end van", we are away for up to weeks at a time.
This is amongst the foremost reasons the UK builders don't get our business, they don't make a product fit for our purposes.
It is healthy it is being discussed here. It would be a great deal healthier if it was discussed, as the adequacy of the tow car is at point of van sale, or even full on by our club's magazines.
1 -
MIRO content of a caravan or motorhome is not defined in any EU directive but in an industry standard. Manufacturers are therefore quite free to abide by the standard or go their own way when publishing their weights. Only the MIRO in the Certificate of Conformity has to be according to BS EN 1645 or BS EN 1646, respectively.
0
