Load margins, what do you need?

Milothedog

"There is no legal 100% max ratio for trailers."

Glad you said that, I keep reading this on here. From what I understand its Gross Train Weight along with not exceeding the cars maximum towing weight limit and nose weight limit that are the limiting factors to what you can tow provided it's within the width/length requirements.

So on a pre 97 B+E/C1 licence you can go up to 8.25 tons GTW as I understand it. 

 

Lutz

Exceeding the gross train weight is an offence, but not that of exceeding the car‘s towing or noseweight limits, although exceeding them could affect warranty and possibly insurance coverage.

A Category BE licence only allows one to drive a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight of up to 3500kg towing a trailer also up to 3500kg. To go above that you need a C1E licence.

EmilysDad

To go above that you need a C1E licence.

Or have passed your test before 97 as suggested by Milo 😉

jennyc

I think that you need to read my post again.  Nowhere do I suggest that a legal outfit is unsafe, quite the reverse is clearly stated - exceeding the current max plate (legal max) may well be safe, I’ll say it again, may well be safe, provided it doesn’t exceed the van chassis max OR the car’s max.

Nowhere have I suggested more than one max gross weight on the plate, I repeat, nowhere. I’ve suggested just ONE max gross weight on the van plate, and that should be the max gross for the chassis.

You are normally quite astute Lutz, so I’ll just assume that you were in a hurry.

The capitals aren’t, in this case, shouting, they are used as in traditional English for emphasis. Repeat, not shouting.

jennyc

Not really readily available then. Free offer on a brand new van. I’ve never done that because we’ve bought from existing stock, which can attract a bigger discount late in the season.

Lutz

Sorry if there was a misunderstanding, but I do need to make a small correction. You write that one mustn’t exceed the caravan chassis limit. That is not strictly true, One mustn’t exceed the caravan manufacturers type approved and plated limits (MTPLM, axle loads). These may be lower than the limits set by the chassis manufacturer.

jennyc

Thanks Lutz. Your correction is acknowledged, with the caveat that the van manufacturer’s type approval is built around the load carrying capability of the chassis and not on an arbitrary reduction in weight limits for no other reason than marketing.

i think that I need to clarify that I’m suggesting a change in the way in which the limits on the Vin plate are derived - not an addition to the existing data. We are all well aware that it’s possible to have a van replated without any mechanical alterations. All i’d like to see is the figure changed to its max by default.

Lutz

The MTPLMs shown on the statutory plate are usually derived from technical and not from marketing constraints. The plate next to the door may show a lower figure based on marketing conditions, but then that’s not a statutory plate because it doesn’t fulfil the the requirements of the regulations.

jennyc

So are you saying that if stopped by the police, they are only entitled to consider the chassis vin plate, typically on the drawbar, and that the small plate next to the door has no statutory authority? If that’s the case, we may be wasting our time having vans replated, save for ancillary information on tyre pressures etc.

Lutz

Not the label on the drawbar because that is usually the one applied by the chassis, not the caravan manufacturer. The statutory plate is usually to be found in the front locker.

Lutz

ps: The statutory plate can be identified by the one which also displays the max. allowable axle loads, max. noseweight, and in the case of a caravan subject to whole vehicle type approval, I.e. post 2014, the type approval number in addition to the name of the caravan, not the chassis manufacturer.

jennyc

Thanks for that Lutz, I didn’t know that there was yet another plate. Our van is kept in storage but we have to pay a visit this week, so I’ll tidy the locker and look for it at the same time. 

Lutz

One or two manufacturers, I think Elddis is one, have recently gone over to combining the statutory plate with the NCC plate, which is the one next to the door, so in that case there won't, of course, be one in the front locker. However in the majority of cases, it will still be there.

Wildwood

I am not convinced that the chassis manufacturers weight would be accepted above the caravan manufacturers MTPLM. The point being that the chassis may be able to carry more weight than the MTPLM, but the caravan manufacturer built the structure on top, and so may have good reason to use a lower weight possibly due to the structure of the body or some other legitimate reason.

Lutz

Your assumption is correct.

DSB

Hi folks. 

I would really appreciate it if members would avoid making personal 'criticism'/ comments.  Please ignore rather than escalate.  Sadly, if this continues, I will have no alternative but to close the thread and refer the matter to the Community Manager. 

Thank you for your cooperation.

David

jennyc

More thanks. Ours  is a swift van, so I’m expecting to explore the front locker still.

Tamaritan

I current have been told that I need to replace my axle at £1250!!!! on my 8 month old caravan. What I dont understand is how these companies all know that you can replate your caravan and increase the payload by up to 50kg and yhen they charge you for this. I also do not understand why when Swift and many others offer a 50kg "upgrade" Bailey can only manage 10kg and charge you twice as much. As all they are doing is keeping the plated MTPL down for family cars its a joke. Look how many of us drive SUVs! Get real and upgrade your axles. 

viatorem

Sorry to hear that Tamaritan, if Alko have inspected your van and found it overweight ask for the report. There's currently a campaign going on of reporting axle failures to both the Camc Technical Help and the DVSA claiming safety as a prime concern with the aim of provoking a safety recall by Alko, not only of Bailey's vans but all affected makes. 

Check out Facebook Bailey axle Problems family for contact details at DVSA. 

 Some have paid for axle and fitting, some just fitting and others have had a free replacement.

DSB

I agree entirely with viatorem.  Take a look at Bailey Axle Problems Family on Facebook.  Write to the Technical department of the CAMC, who are compiling evidence with the hope of being able to approach Bailey on our behalf.  (Similarly the DVSA).

Get your dealer to put in a warranty claim.  Alko will send out an engineer to check your caravan.  I would make sure that you empty your van completely  when then come to inspect it.  If they find they can replace it, you will get a letter saying that the van may have been overloaded at sometime during its ownership, but as a measure of goodwill, they will replace it.  If your caravan is overweight when you take it in for inspection, they will probably reject the claim saying you are at fault.

We were 'lucky'.  As we knew we weren't going to be using our caravan, we emptied completely in September, so it was empty when I took it in for inspection.  After saying that, I have been suspicious in our our axle ever since we bought he 'van new in 2016.  I have always been careful about the weight of items we carry in the caravan and have checked the weight periodically at weighbridge.  Ours is due to be replaced FOC next month, but neither Bailey or Alko are accepting responsibility.  Although they have agreed to replace ours, this still remains an issue for us.

Do contact your dealer and write to the Club.

David