An appeal to Safefill users - and others!
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DD.
I strongly recommend you contact Safefill & ask them for the information you crave.
I did & received a very informative reply from them along with a PDF of the Red Guide including guidance on the refilling of cylinders.
Unfortunately I'm a technophobe & no idea how to post it on here.
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Just confirming.
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Now that 'would' be a useful development on club sites. Can't somehow see Calor being overly enthusiastic about such an innovation though.
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It would take a bit of imagination from the CC and most of the people who go one CC sites are the type who get through about 1 6kg a decade. Ie the ones who in my not very humble opinion would have to be nuts to consider a refillable system (Safefill or otherwise)
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Could not happen on a CC site. A risk assessment would quickly show that the only way to ensure that the bottle being filled is not a DIY lashup is to have an overview, Tanks are near washrooms and not the office.
If there was enough uptake to install a tank by the office then maybe. As CC pitches have included EHU why would many users faff. I pay around £25 a year for 4 months gas usage. It would take at least 10 year to recoup the purchase of a refillable gas bottle
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That’s what I’ve been saying DAVE but he won’t. He hasn’t rung Safefill, he hasn’t rung Morrisons. He hasn’t rung the PRA. He knows nothing and it would appear that he is perfectly happy with that. He has kept asking for links that do not exist. They do not exist for very good reasons. I have said until I’m blue in the face- They haven’t been released yet! But that’s not good enough for him. And again, if he got off his backside and did some ringing round he would soon discover that : a. The Red Guide has been rewritten to include owner self fill cylinders. b. The ‘facts’that the PRA accepted Safefill is because the Safefill Cylinder passed, as it says in the Document, every international standard and British standard that it’s possible to pass. In other words, it’s a bloody good product!!. c. He would also discover that his interference and objections are way too late- it’s all sorted. Refillables are here and here to stay and they will become the default cylinder in years to come. Technologies move on even for the humble (and very expensive) steel cylinder. All we have to do now is put a cherry on the cake by getting more fill sites and that is what this thread is all about. When I read posts like the one from Artyboo, I know this is a worthy cause. It’s not like I didn’t request it in the OP!!
I ask yet again, if posts are not about who has emailed these two Garage groups or the answers they have received, then they have no place on here. The reason the thread is so long is because of all the hot air expelled in trying to fight something that is a done deal. What it should have is info telling me who’s emailed and the answers received- that’s it. It should be a quarter of the length it is! It was meant to be a ‘public service post’ and it only takes on or two to destroy it. Why the detractors haven’t started another thread to vent their spleen I’ll never know- it doesn’t belong here. Peace!🤣🤣
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Hi everyone,
Further to my previous post, I have a response from our Technical team. Please see below:
User-refillable gas systems designed to be filled from autogas dispensers suit certain kinds of motorhome and caravan user, typically those consuming greater amounts of gas as a result of frequent use and/or predominantly staying at locations where mains electric hook-up is not available. Installations using fixed tanks have long been accepted at filling stations (for practical purposes, they’re equivalent to an LPG-powered vehicle). Cylinders which are securely installed in a broadly similar manner with a separate filling point and certain other technical requirements have also been accepted for some time.
At present, though, the published guidance for filling station operators (i.e. ‘The Red Guide’, published by the Petroleum Enforcement Liaison Group and User Information Sheet 026, published by UKLPG (the LPG industry’s trade association) state that ‘Customers or untrained attendants should not be allowed to fill portable LPG cylinders from the autogas dispenser.’ The current versions of these documents date from 2015 and 2016 respectively.
The Club understood that these documents were due to be revised and new versions published last year, and that this would allow for the filling of portable cylinders. However, the revised documents have still not been released, and therefore the Club’s view is that we cannot yet encourage members to adopt user-refillable portable cylinders. The delay in publication could conceivably indicate a reconsideration of what we believed to have been previously agreed in the draft revisions. Until updated guidance is actually published, and we can see what the revised official documents say, we can’t be confident that any of the systems currently on the market will meet whatever technical requirements are required, and we can’t be confident that filling station operators will allow the widespread use of such cylinders at their facilities.
Specific suppliers operating in this sector and specific filling station operators may choose to implement their own policies, presumably based on their own risk assessment of this technology. At present at least, the national situation is as set out in the published guidance and that is all the Club can really follow, as the Club doesn’t have the specialist knowledge to enable it to recommend against such advice.
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so (and being serious here) if I had a safefill bottle and take it along am I allowed to refill it?
It would appear not from Ro's post above, is this the case in reality? Also why? You can fill up your own car I take it?
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Even such a draconian approach need not preclude the use of portable cylinders if a separate filler point was installed with the appropriate connecting hose attached to the cylinder as required. It would then be indistinguishable from a permanently fixed installation.
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so a trained employee is needed?
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It is up to the retailer as to who is permitted to be served with what and by whom. As I said earlier it would seem that Morrisons have done a risk assessment and decided that Joe Public can refill Safefill bottles. Obviously some others have also done the same.
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Ok but I'm then confused by the 'red guide' which states:
At present, though, the published guidance for filling station operators (i.e. ‘The Red Guide’, published by the Petroleum Enforcement Liaison Group and User Information Sheet 026, published by UKLPG (the LPG industry’s trade association) state that ‘Customers or untrained attendants should not be allowed to fill portable LPG cylinders from the autogas dispenser.’ The current versions of these documents date from 2015 and 2016 respectively.
Is this law or a guideline that could be followed? What is this 'enforcement' supposed to mean?
What happens if there is accident by Joe Public filling their bottles?
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It is as far as I know it’s a guideline published by a trade body. I don’t know of a specific law making the filling of a bottle. Calor might claim filling one of their bottles is illegal. While it is certainly in contravention of their hire agreement not that I ever had one. I would doubt it would constitute a specific criminal offence.
What happens if there is an accident with Joe Public filling his car or Jerry can with premium unleaded?
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Just when I thought the message had sunk home! I don’t think I can say it again as the previous 30 times has been ignored. I’ll try. Here we go..... you’re looking at old stuff- out of date stuff, stuff that is not relevant. The new RG and the St 26 are in the pipeline. Don’t ask me when they are coming out- I don’t know but I can assure you they will. Safefill has a copy of the new RG but they won’t release it as it has not yet been released by the appropriate authorities and it would not be polite to to do so. But, I’m sure Morrisons have a copy too! That’s it from me! This is giving me a headache!! Doh!!
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The Red Guide from Petrol Enforcement Liaison Group does not, from my memory, refer to LPG. Sheet 26 is published by UKPLG and is a trade association guide with regard to PLG.
As far as I can see the Red Guide is a bit of a Red Herring as the current one does not reference LPG. Whether the next one, when issued, will refer to LPG or not I have no idea but wonder why it would?
As Ro pointed out, the present advice from UKLPG to its members is that untrained operatives should not refill gas bottles. Whether Morrisons, for example, are a part of that trade association I have no idea.
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