Interesting Petition Part 2
Due to the premature closure of the original thread I am opening a new one. I received the following email form 38 degrees/Mark Bevan today and I think the response form C&MC is broadly in line with our comment on here so perhaps someone from HQ does read these threads after all 
Mark has even added the link to the closed thread so perhaps he also did read it but declined to comment, pity it was closed also!!
Dear supporters,
Monday 13 August update, the petition hit 2.5k signatures, thank you. I received an email from the C&MC last Thursday, who are aware of the petition. The email from the clubs Public Affairs & Corporate Communications Manager contained an interesting paragraph that I would like to share with you:
"There is arguably scope and demand for another level of stopover, along the lines of a French Aire. However, the establishment of these would have a cost, and there would be planning approval challenges and UK safety requirements (minimum fire safety separation distances for instance) to overcome. It’s worth debating whether the provision of such facilities should be the responsibility of an organisation like the Club, or whether local authorities should provide them (as is the case in some other countries – France and Australia, for instance). There are already some examples of this in the UK, although some of them operate without compliance with the safety separation distances that those same local authorities would insist on if site operators like the Club were to set them up."
If nothing else our petition has raised awareness, so please keep sharing the petition and let's see if we can hit 3k signatures. The more people who sign, the more chance our voices will be heard. Please use the buttons below to share on social media and with anyone else you know who is impacted.
Posting the campaign on Facebook or Twitter only takes a second, but it will mean that hundreds of people see the petition. If you can email the link around as well, all the better - that will allow us to spread the word to people who don’t use social media too.
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Thank you again for signing
Mark
p.s. You might also like to know, that a link to the petition has been posted and a discussion is taking place about it on the C&MC online forum. Not everyone agrees with the petition, and you may find it interesting to read some different views, or even contribute to the discussion. Here is the link https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/club-together/discussions/sites-touring/uk-sites-touring/interesting-petition/?p=1
Mark Bevan started this campaign on the 38 Degrees Campaigns by You website. If there's an issue close to your heart that you'd like to campaign on, you can start your campaign here.
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Moderator Edit:
The thread has been closed and made 'read only', pending a decision by our Community Manager on its future.
Comments
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Thank you for sharing the update. The original discussion was closed as it had gone off topic. However we are happy for this to remain open as there has been an update on the petition but would please ask members to keep the discussion on topic and keep conversation friendly regardless of differing opinions. Many thanks and we really appreciate people sharing their feedback and thoughts with the Club.
FYI the response from the original discussion from the Club is below:
Many thanks for your feedback and for highlighting the petition to the Club.
We do consider motorhome owners when designing, re-designing and reviewing sites for acquisition – looking at the availability of public transport and proximity to local amenities among other things. Many of our existing sites were acquired decades ago when demands from members were different. But as these sites remain popular despite some of them being in locations away from towns, it makes no sense to sell them. We install hardstandings and motor van waste points on all sites as a matter of policy, and we will continue to review what is needed by our members in the future. The Club is a ‘broad church’ and that’s why we try to meet all members’ needs wherever we can. The whole purpose of our name change and revised values is to ensure we do a better job on an ongoing basis of catering for owners of motorhomes as well as caravans.
There is arguably scope and demand for another level of stopover, along the lines of a French Aire. However, the establishment of these would have a cost, and there would be planning approval challenges and UK safety requirements (minimum fire safety separation distances for instance) to overcome. It’s worth debating whether the provision of such facilities should be the responsibility of an organisation like the Club, or whether local authorities should mainly provide them (as is the case in some other countries – France and Australia, for instance). There are already some examples of this in the UK, although some of them operate without compliance with the safety separation distances that those same local authorities would insist on for site operators like the Club.
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Michael, I fully support the idea of Motorhome parking along the lines of the French "Aires de Camping Cars" here in the UK,--- It would obviously need representation from Camping organisations and Local councils to speed the process along. I would suggest that if one camping organisation were to be proactive in this endeavour , other organisations would be encouraged to follow suit.
I wish the petition every success
K
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Interesting to read the club's response.
Whilst appreciating the appeal of such stopovers, for all the practical reasons mentioned in the original thread, the petition has little chance of success and would be better aimed at asking the club (s) to lobby authorities for this provision (IMHO). Nothing else new to say, really.
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I think Moulesy has said it all, as did the original thread in its early stages.
Incidentally "…France and Australia…"??? Is that a typo from the club?
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Agree with M and TW. Why should the general public fund the very considerable cost of constructing these things for the benefit of a a limited number of that public. There are a few potholes on my estate that need fixing first.
but also few statistics, so there has been 2500 signatures to this petition, of out how many club members? What is it stand at now 800,000? Now I know these are probably double counted for families? but even if all those signatures were club members that is 0.3 or 0.6% of the membership.
What about actual outfits, according to the NCC there 555,000 touring caravans and 225,000 motor homes. Assuming that only motorhomers are voting then that's 1%.
So what is the demand for these stopovers and what justification for the cost can be made out of public funds?
Don't get me wrong I am just against the cost involved.
Also am I the only one who thinks that it would be odd for the club, or the other one, or any owners of sites, to promote such a thing? The club has to look out for it's members' interest of course, but losing potential income from having free 'sites' can hardly be good?
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I agree M And I only posted it so people were aware the club has contacted the petition organiser and he has bought attention to the original thread and as I think most agree it is maybe something the club would not directly set up but their considerable weight could be used to lobby LA's etc. to provide more MH parking for both daytime and overnight use.
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I wonder how many of those signatures would still be there if they had to pledge some money to enable these stopoves to happen for them? I mean they want them let them pay? Lets say £250 per name?
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but why would the club lobby to lose money?
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I think the fact that there are 3000 signatures just shows that there are a lot of rich motorhome owners totally out of touch with how underfunded the public services, teaching, mental health, NHS, Police, Ambulance, social housing, defence etc are.
Any provision for M/H owners will have to come from the private sector.
But given that the aim seems to be to provide somewhere low cost for M/H owners to stop near a POI then it's hard to see how the capital cost of buying up tracts of land and converting them to Aires is going to be funded. I doubt there is a business case for C&CC or CC, who have 50% non M/H owning members...?
I would have thought that the best that anyone could hope for short of using existing sites is to try & encourage LA's to make provision for M/H stopovers in existing car parks & Park & Rides. How that will be reconciled with preventing traveller invasions I'm not sure, but it seems to work at some places (eg Chester Roodee?). A tap, some bins and a CWP seem to be all that is needed.
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Quite right, MT, but they should treat all members equally and promote 'sites' for the whole of the membership. However, lobbying is one thing while providing is quite another and it is inappropriate, in my view, to use club funds to set up aires for just a section of the membership.
We've said all this in the other thread……
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but you are completely wrong that this petition is in the interest of the club's members, so far if all the signatures are club members that only accounts for about 0.3/0.6% of members, unless you can show otherwise. If people don't stay on club sites the club loses money.
Why should the club back something with such a low percentage number?
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"You caravanners"? That’s very telling, MT.
It could be that caravanners would like to use aires as much as you want to and many of us MH-ers are very happy to use club sites.
All for one and one for all. Please don’t try to create a divide where one doesn't exist.
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not really, those new stop overs will cost money, where will that money come from? Why should the non LV public pay for our hobby?
isn't club membership at 50% or each outfit type now? doesn't that show that the club provides full blown sites for either outfit that wants to stay?
No the club should not promote all kinds of stop overs? why should it? That is like saying a B&B club/group should promote larger more expensive hotels? The club is a hotel where you bring your own room, simple. By joining the club you can access these rooms at a lower rate and have access to other services.
It offers 'full blown sites' as you say. If you or one doesn't want this sort of stay then don't use it, so so simple. But don't expect the club or Joe Public to fund your type of stay over, why should it?
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+1
I don't expect the club to promote, or the local council to build a free stopover for me.
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I think the problem with petitions like this, and there have been many over the years, is that they tend to demand rather than persuade.
Local Authorities could make a modest investment in some of their car parks and Park and Rides to provide proper parking places for motorhomes during the day for a start. If appropriate this could be extended to overnight stays. Now I say investment as if a proper assessment was made it is possible that the LA might actually make a modest return on that investment if they utilised under capacity. It wouldn't work everywhere but there will be opportunities. From the LA point of view it also the advantage that it could put in place controls over unacceptable parking in areas that upset locals and it could be limited in length of stay to 24/48 hours. I take the view that it is probably better to have organise facilities for motorhome parking than a free for all with LA's having to play catch up as they see problems arising.
David
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Who said it should be free? I think everyone would be happy to pay for parking as you would in a car, there is limited cost to set this up if there are car parks already there, just provisioning longer bays is fine. If there are services again a modest fee to use it would be acceptable.
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It could be that caravanners would like to use aires as much as you want to and many of us MH-ers are very happy to use club sites.
I am sure they would and I have seen them do so in France however not being self contained like a MH precludes them from doing so in general. And many MH's who use sites would also like a cheaper alternative just to stop for the night or just to park for the day to visit attractions, cities etc.
As I said in the original post we did not understand the issue when we had a caravan but since moving to a MH we do now.
However I posted the new information as a service not to re-open the debate as I think it ran its course so perhaps we should now close this one?
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but who would pay for the considerably large costs - as I assume you would want them over the whole country or just where you go
? And how long till that has been paid back?But the big sticking point is that why should everyone pay for this that only a minority of the total population will use it. It just strikes me as very selfish. There are far better things to spend taxpayers and local authority money on for the benefit of everyone.
I drive by a motor home dealer nearby, they also sell caravans but the motor homes face the road, it's on the main bus route from Durham to Newcastle. How do you think that Joe (or Jossie) public will feel seeing outfits on sale for £40/50000 then someone saying their taxes will be spent on free/low parking for people who can afford those prices?
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MT, my understanding is no different now than when we had a caravan and I see no 'issue'. One night stops are easily catered for by the existing network of sites of all types and there’s always something in the required area. CLs cater for 'cheaper' if that’s of concern and, for parking to visit cities, there are the likes of P&Rs.
However, if there is a need for aires, that’s fine by me as long as the club isn’t expected to provide them or my LA makes darn sure it will be profit making before spending my money.
Thankyou for posting the update but you, yourself, have done a fair bit towards re-opening the debate.
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Sorry I think you have lost the plot or not read my posts. The car parks are already there, they are everywhere as they are a money making machine for LA's. Just to provision a few longer bays costs very little, so how is that costing a lot of money paid for by everyone for a few people?
LA's spend lots on cycle lanes for a very few people to use and those that do do not pay any road tax to fund them, they come from tax payers, same as arts centres that a few people visit but again thats fine we have to cater for all sorts so providing a few longer bays in a car park falls into the same bracket.
As for your last sentence I cant really answer as its total tosh, no one is expecting anything for free and I guess the MH dealer wants to sell more MH's sop he put them at the front to allow the poor people of Newcastle to aspire to something who knows?
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So how much does a new caravan and suitable tow car cost these days, probably £40/50000? So why should people think differently about motorhomes? Surely all that is being ask is that LA's consider making provision for larger vehicles like motorhomes to make use of often under used parking facilities by creating say half a dozen suitable size parking bays. The cost of painting a few white lines in an existing underused car park would be minimal.Any costs would be quickly recouped over a fairly short period as they would be getting additional parking fees from motorhomers who currently can't park there especially as they would justifiably being paying more than a car. I appreciate that many LA are strapped for cash at the moment but that shouldn't prevent modest investments that could bring in extra visitors to towns and therefore help to improve local trade. LA's make a lot of money from car parking so a little extra investment could be justified.
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I have neither lot the plot and have indeed read your posts, you seem to be wanting to make this a caravan/Mh debate and wanted the whole thread started again then when people disagree with you you then want it closed.
But as you have resulted to insults to myself and indeed the people of Newcastle I assume you have cannot argue your case rationally and will stop responding to you. Good luck with the petition. It must be good to get something for nothing.
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Well I mentioned MH as the OP and other closed thread talked about them.
My points apply to Mh and caravans. equally. I don't expect long parking bays for my van so that I can get a cheap/free overnight stay. There are better alternatives out there.
Why should the majority of the public be inconvenienced by losing a car parking space for a caravan or MH?
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