Elddis - any Hymer effect yet?
Comments
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I had a conversation last week with someone in a position to know. But the answer is no. Hymer haven’t as of yet made any investment, which he said, was sorely needed , into Elddis and the management has stayed the same. The fact the website was only updated relatively recently tends to support this view.
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im not sure ive read anywhere what the rationale is behind the Hymer move...
there cant be anything that Elddis can bring to the table (can there?) with regard to technology or marketing that Hymer doesnt have already.
however the one thing that they do have is manufacturing capacity, which Hymer dont....their order books are full and cant make enough for the customers they have....
also, Hymer (as with Adria and a couple of other German brands) has a 'bugdet' brand in Carado and this level of product is taking off in Europe... see also Sun Living (Adria) and Sunlight (Dethleffs).
Carado and Sunlight are both part of the Hymer Group and their models are built alongside each other at the same factory.
i have a feeling that Hymer will using some of the Elddis capacity (or changing the focus...) to produce more of these brands.
i certainly dont see Hymer (or N+B
) reissmobil being 'built' by Elddis
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It seems that the motorhome/caravan industry, Europe wide, is falling into the hands of fewer and fewer companies with recent takeovers and perhaps Hymer wanted part of the action in order to protect its own position? I agree that Elddis might seem a strange bedfellow but I expect it has a fair slice of the UK motorhome market and perhaps what Hymer are interested in?
David
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Presumably Hymer bought explorer group. Because they were for sale and with a weak £ cheap. Interestingly there was an article in the Economist stating how buoyant the current UK caravan market is, and put a lot of this down to people blowing their pensions on a new caravan / motorhome.
I would guess that Hymer would let Elddis, tread water for a couple of years until the implications of Brexit are worked through.
The thought that Hymer bought Elddis for the technology is hilarious. Almost as hilarious as a post I saw somewhere that claimed it was a merger not a takeover.
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I agree Boff. Brexit hasn’t been shaken to a conclusion yet and like most German companies, Hymer will not be moving too much before the outcome is more certain. However IMHO, I happen to be one that doesn’t think Brexit is all doom and gloom. The opportunities for British Industry, know how and technology will be great and the sky is the limit for the country. Perhaps it’s this that Hymer has positioned itself for? It wouldn’t surprise me at all. One thing is for certain, you can bet it’s a shrewd move and one that I think the British Caravan Industry needs. In other words, a good kick in the pants to shake it out of its ‘that’ll do’ attitude.
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There’s an awful lot of guesswork and supposition going on in this thread. Unless you’re on the Erwin Hymer board, or quoting from official press releases, it’s all conjecture.
David asked about the ‘Hymer effect’. Being as the takeover was just 8 months ago, evidence of the expected change in quality will take time to become apparent.
I’ll be taking the opportunity to see for myself at the upcoming show, with a close look at the visible build quality of Buccaneers in particular.
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All you can do is ask what has been done to eliminate the known issues with cracking panels. Certainly the near side wall issues were linked to the flush Seitz windows and a lack of strengthening in the bonded wall. The flush Seitz windows are no longer used, which is a shame as they look so much better, both internally and externally.
It would be worth asking about the rear panel though, it can be assumed that the tight fit and stress points in the corners with no give in the bonded structure for heat expansion would be a concern. Buccaneers have caps in the top corners so no cracking is evident, the bottom corners on our Caravel have been fine and I check thouroughly, every time I wash the van. (Deeply suspicious). Caravans that are lower in the range don’t have caps fitted in the top corners from new, but they have been fitted retrospectively.
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My comments were based on a conversation with someone who is familiar with both products. Sorry to be so cloak and dagger, but he is what I would call an informed source. Buccaneers on the surface are very nice vans. It's when you look deeper than the surface bling, that's when the cracks literally and figuratively begin to show. My opinion and at the end of day it's your £33k to spend.
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I would never spend £33,000 on a caravan. I would hire one for approximately £10k over three years though
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the one major thing that Hymer cant afford is to have their brand quality diluted by the takeover of Elddis.
all companies in the Hymer portfolio are well known as being part of the group (N+B, Laika, Burstner, Dethleffs, now Carado/Sunlight)... each of these has a top class reputation for quality, while the two 'sub brands' are deliberately marketed as similar build integrity/quality, less gizmos hence the lower price points...
Elddis dont currently (IMHO) have a reputation in any area other than being built down to a price point, yet (in the MH market) being loaded with 'goodies' that catch punters' eyes....
these cost money, yet to compete at the lower end of the market, cost has to be 'managed' in other areas.....'cheaper construction/build?'.
would i rather have Hymer quality with less gadgets or Elddis 'quality' with more gadgets at the same price point?....rhetorical
as said earlier, many large continental companies are buying up large slices of uk production (and sales) capacity.....Trigano have now bought Marquis....who are now pushing hard with Mobilvatta and Benimar brands (and doing well....)....Rapido group have also made purchases here.
an interesting scenario is that Marquis (Trigano) sells 'blinged up' Elddis models which are now owned by Hymer.......wonder how that will pan out?
lots of brand 'rationalisation' going on now, even Swift has finally ejected the Autocruise brand, their PVC range is badged Swift for 2018.
Hymer effect?
long before we see what (if anything) hapens quality wise to Elddis, we will see where (if anywhere) the Elddis (and other Explorer brands) feature in the Hymer portfolio moving forward...
its a very dynamic market out there at the moment.
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It's a thought provoking question. There are only a couple of scenarios imo. Eldiss folds as a name and it wouldn't surprise many as their perceived quality is woeful only sharpened in focus by Buccaneer....premium price but still Eldiss build quality. Hymer might just pull a rabbit out of a hat and turn Eldiss into a byword for quality. Even if they only achieve a 50% improvement in quality the likes of Bailey are in trouble. Personally I think it's a shrewd move by Hymer Group to obtain at a knockdown price a UK based manufacturing facility. You can be sure all Brit manufacturers will be watching them very closely. At the end of the day we as caravanners have been crying out for vans the equal of German tourers for years.
Fingers crossed.
Tj
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Any leisure vehicle builder that production is measured in the thousands per year will have "complaints"from the few who have a problem, if a problem? and that includes all makes and models,but then there are the other thousands who are satisfied with their purchases and as stated have the back up of their dealers
But then we in the uk want all the bells and whistles in a 4berth vehicle that with a c/van can be towed by a ford focus
and a motor caravan 24ft long and 3500kg max weight0 -
I can understand your argument, for an entry level van to be able to be towed with a family car, by someone with a basic licence.
However this argument holds no water in the case of the Buccaneer. There is no excuse to market, what is supposedly the ultimate luxury van with such a pitiful payload allowance. In the case of the Galera that absolute minimum value allowed by regulation .
The allowance that cannot be upgraded by any significant extent because they have opted to put it on a 2000kg max weight Chassis. These are vans that aren't going to be towed by a Ford Focus. They will be towed by large heavy vechicles. By people with B&E licences. They are not lightweight vans. the only logical reason, for the payload must be penny pinching from Elddis and now Hymer.
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My point was, is and shall remain, that a Bucaneer is marketed aa follows:
"No other caravan range comes close to Buccaneer. This luxury caravan is in a league of its own!"
It is positioned and priced as a luxury top end caravan. It is not positioned as something you can tow with the family hatch. Despite that it has user payload, which frankly is the wrong side of sweet FA. All the bells a whistles are great, but not if you can only take a pair of underpants and a clean tee shirt on your 6 month tour of Europe.
On the other hand your average British van has more toys than your average continental spec van. There is a good and a bad reason for this. The good reason is that the average British caravanner spends more time inside his van, due the below average British weather and probably has a longer season as well. Than does his continental counterpart, not counting snowbirds. The second reason is less bad, is that the average British buyer is attracted to shiny gimmicks and is willing to sacrifice quality for bling. And bling weighs.
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Having owned eight Hymer brand caravans ( 5 T.E.C. 1 GEIST. 2 HYMER ) September 2016 we decided our next 'van would be the supposed superior Coachman VIP 560/4. It was falling to bits around us and we were glad to be rid of it after only six months, trading it to Lowdhams for a Hymer Nova LuxusLine ( very nice 'van ) in July this year we did a deal on a new Hymer Nova 580 GL, on visiting site we noticed a top of the range Buccaneer for the same price, looking through rose tinted glasses the majority would have jumped at the Buccaneer, after 35 yrs and 17 caravans ( no major problems with any accept the Coachman ) we are very happy to own our " ugly duckling " Hymer. I'm sure Hymer will drop the Elddis brand and just make use of the Uk capacity to produce their own products.
That of course is only my opinion.
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It's strange, that there are regularly we have never used a shower type posts. Yet I know of no British mainstream caravan that doesn't have a shower. Obviously they don't think that there is a market.
It depends on how, when and where you use your caravan. South of France in the middle of summer. Only go in it to sleep. However 95% of use is in the UK and all year around. So our Hymer has been Anglicised, so it has a seperate shower and an oven. For us the oven is never used for much more than heating Pies, nice to have I guess but not a deal breaker if it didn't have one. The shower on the other hand is a total must. We are away all next week on a non facility site, so a good shower is absolutely essential for us, we wouldn't have a van without one. Alde heating lovely but not essential. It's horses for courses,
I haven't seen this years Elddis vans but if they are anything like previous years examples they would be last on my list I just don't rate the build quality. Maybe Hymer want to / will be able,to sort it out
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Last weekend we were on a full facility C&CC site and was expected to shower following dirty, idle users. This weekend we will be at a CMC five van site with no facilities we'll have to put up with our under floor heated shower in the Hymer.
Seriously though for Hymer to bring the Elddis product up to an acceptable ( to me ) caravan with all the bells and whistles on, with a payload as mine has it would need a triple axle.
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This is drifting away from the original post. But I hardly ever use site facilities. I think I used them was 2016 in Spain once, so even if facilities are available I prefer to use my own. Next week, we are literally on a field, so you bring your own facilities or you smell! Actually one of the few faults we have had with this Hymer, is one of the shower panels fell off.
PS The best facilities I have ever seen anywhere home or abroad are at the Willows touring park. Nantwich.
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Quite a sneering post imho but no supprise there.
To clarify your comment "if you want to do "self sufficient" camping in fields". Is factually inaccurate. As our caravan is specified and equipped to do self sufficient camping in fields. We don't "want", we do. The distinction between the two statements is subtle but significant.
At the end of the day I'm not sure you can get any more "utilitarian" than something that can be used year round in all conditions.
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Despite the downbeat tone one or two have taken towards Buccaneers in this thread, in the last few years, long before Hymer moved in, the factory have not been able to keep up with the demand placed upon it.
Certain models, recently Commodore for example, have sold over and above the predicted planned build quota resulting in frustration with longer than expected lead times.
It seems that despite the sometimes shonky build quality and lets face it, there are issues with similar from all of the big UK names, demand is still very high.
Ive owned a couple of Buccs and the build has been inconsistent, the first being worse than the current but I’d have another if deciding to continue caravanning (considering a m’home next)
Speaking of Hymer though, they’re not all bulletproof. Whilst at Chatsworth last weekend with our Hymer A Class motorhome owning friends, the discussion of our future caravan or motorhome intentions came up a few times in conversation and it was me who said I’d want to buy Euro for the reliability and build quality if switching to a motorhome. Our friends said don’t be fooled, their Hymer A Class has had its problems, faulty workmanship, windows leaking and furniture working loose. So, even Hymer aren’t perfect.
I agree with Boff re the Willows though, excellent site
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Actually I think that we agree on more than we don't. We are just seeing it from different perspectives. It does seem strange to me that almost every British spec van I can think of has a seperate shower these days and yet I wonder how many people are actually buying a feature that they are never going to use? As I have stated previously a usable shower is an essential for us.
Regarding the gas not being switched on. We have a safefill and a autoswitch over regulator, both brilliant, both total waste of money if you don't use any gas. For us it the electric that doesn't get switched on. As an example ( I have posted this before) We went away for a quick weekend at the Willows, this summer. Arrived early afternoon and plugged in the ehu Following morning got to make a pot of coffee got out the travel kettle and 15 minutes later it hadn't boiled. I then realised that the mains light wasn't on the control panel and hadn't been since we had arrived. Told my wife that everything in the fridge was likely to be ruined. She said don't worry forgot we were on ehu and automatically lit the fridge
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