Uncontrolled children vs uncontrolled dogs
just reading a thread about uncontrolled/dogs not on a lead
at the chatsworth site recently and I was amazed at the number of very young uncontrolled children cycling and scootering around the site.
This is the first time I have seen this at any club site I have been on. Children roaming around alone, and the first time I've been warned on arrival to drive at 5 miles an hour on a site because there are children cycling round
the majority of sites I've stayed on have had no cycling or skateboarding signs around
I understand children have to play but from what I saw it was very dangerous and if a child was unable to control their bike and was hit who would be liable. The club? The driver? Or the parents
Comments
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You can not compare the two
what do you want ,the parents to keep their kids locked up in the van. For some kids it's the only time they have a bit of space to run around and enjoy themselves
we I drive round a site ,I always expect the unexpected,then if someone runs out from behind a van ,it's not a surprise
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That's why we have a strong - very strong - preference for adult only sites.
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No I do not expect children to stay locked in their van, what a ridiculous thing to say.
what I do expect is that children are supervised. Not left to run wild while their parents sit outside drinking
I also drive very carefully whether I am warned of children or not.
There is a children's play area at chatsworth there is also access to chatsworth grounds , where there are acres for the children to play safely, but that would involve the parents having to do some parenting
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I still like the way the Dutch run their sites in the Netherlands - cars in the car park, and everybody cycling around the site - adults as well as children. There are one or two similar sites here in the Uk too - relaxed and safe. But OAPs on here will soon be along to protest at that too !
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From what I've seen not many drivers observe the speed limit either. I've seen many motorhomes, cars with caravan attached and solo moving too fast on site. I would take a guess at some were doing as much as 20 mph
I don't mind them having a bit of fun as long as there are no balls being kicked or thrown in our direction or in/on our pitch. It's much nicer to see them getting some exercise instead of sitting down glued to some form of small electronic device
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i think I will be leaning towards this also. I've nothing against children but i think it's dangerous kids of 3 and 4 are allowed to ride round without helmets even and no parents in sight
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You can't park your motorhome in the car park though and if you are insinuating I am an OAP you are wrong far from it.
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young kids and large towcars/MHs dont mix well....
, damage to one might be cosmetic, to the other, much more......the club needs to decide if kids playing on site roads have priority and therefore rigorously enforce a 'slow walking pace' speed limit on all vehicles, or ensure that the kids' playtime happens in a proper playground (or off site) where they can come to no harm (from arriving/departing vehicles).
my own view....a bit of both......vehicle speeds are generally too high and ive never seen anyone pulled up for this.....
by the same token, kids should not be using site roads as a racetrack (any more than vehicles should) and a decent area on site should be created, if possible.
if theres no decent play area, then no playing in the roadways, please
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Lovely sign in our local teashop
We don't mind children we don't mind parents but we do mind parents who don't mind their children.
I thought that summed it up nicely myself.
Kids need the freedom campsite can give them but they are the responsibility of parents.
Speed is an issue and that's something we can all do something about.
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Obviously the 2 Dutch sites I stayed at this year hadn't heard of the Dutch Method
Most of us wouldn't allow young children to play on the streets around their house so why would a camp site be any different. What my concern is the amount of apparently under 5 year old's left to their own devices with no supervision
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I'd rather put up with the antics of children than some of the adults on site, at least children playing brings a smile to your face.
Most vehicles are travelling way in excess of the speed limit on site, just slow down and for every conceivable surprise you will have the time to react.
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I've said it before & it continues to be proved-for some C&MC sites are viewed as an outdoor care Home. If any pedestrian is harmed it's the fault of the vehicle driver no ifs or buts.
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No ball games or kite flying please. I cannot say that I am too concerned other than when I see children as young as 4 or 5, unsupervised by adults or even older siblings, cycling around the site, probably trying to catch up with older children. And yes I have seen this beyond dusk. As we caravan outside main holiday periods it is not something that I frequently witness.
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Just before the main school holidays we stayed at Clumber Park at a weekend for a couple of nights as we made our way north. We were a bit late arriving so we had limited choice of pitches and the one we decided on was very near the very busy play area. I thought it rather lovely that the kids were having such a good time. OK they ran between the vans, they rode their bikes the wrong way round the one way system but did anyone care, I don't think so. There are so few opportunities for kids, other than at school, to get out and enjoy the company of their own age in the relative safety of a Club site. I am not quite sure what people expect? If the presence of children is likely to be a problem vote with your feet and use adult only sites.
David
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I agree with regard to pedestrians in general. Not always the case with cyclists however. The two child deaths on CC sites have both been seen not to be the fault of the driver. One was a child emerging from a concealed area on a cycle behind a car. Unfortunately the child ended up between the car and the caravan and the driver would have been unaware prior to the impact. I believe that the other case was where a child similarly cycled into the side of either a caravan or motorhome. In both cases it was reported that the driver was apparently keeping to site speed limits. I have had two instances where a child on a cycle could have been injured. On both occasions I was doing 4 miles an hour (I know this because I travel around site on tick over and that is the speed that my car moves at tick over).
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How can you compare streets on a housing estate with the roadway on a caravan site? As above, if a child can't cycle around a club site in relative safety, where can they play? Kids are told to get outside & play rather than sit playing on electronic gadgets etc & when they do ......
If away during school holidays I fully expect kids to be playing on their bikes, going with & against the one way systems. I suggest the OP either stays at home & moan about kids in his/her street playing ball within 100yds of his/her car/house or find an adult only site ...... I'm sure there'll be something else to moan about there too
I've NEVER seen 'no cycling' signs on CC sites other than around toilet blocks. And every CC has plenty of 5mph signs.
I can't put in print what I really think or I'd be banned
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I'm a bit puzzled as some of your remarks Bunty,
the majority of sites I've stayed on have had no cycling or skateboarding signs around
Are you talking about club sites here? Yes they have these on club sites but only around the communal and entrance areae, like the shower block. Cycling around the site roads has always been the norm on every club site I've been to.Children roaming around alone
again you don't give any indication of your definition of young, but children do make friends and wander about the site together and depending on the age regarding supervision this is again the norm on club sites.
I've been warned on arrival to drive at 5 miles an hour on a site because there are children cycling round
well apart from being a very sensible suggestion from the wardens there are posters up in all sites I've been to to remind to you drive at 5mph (the high 5 ones comes to mind), so again why should this be a surprise to you? Where ever you are if someone no matter what the age caused damage that person is liable.
Club sites are holiday sites for children and parents to have fun subject to the club rules which does state that parents should supervise their children approriatly. This is the summer holiday for children and hence you would expect more children about than other times.
I've been going to club sites a long time and I personally have no problems with children wandering and cycling around a site having fun. there is obviously an age clause built in to that statement and with due regard to other's enjoyment. Like others I don't expect ball games near outfits but if it's quiet you (or one) are after then clubs sites are not the place to be in summer.
Having that said I agree with Rocky and others, people do speed on site and everything should be done to stop this. There is absolutely no reason to go more than 5mph and if you do and something happens then it probably will be your (or one's) fault
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yes, spot on +1
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My view exactly david
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The main issue I feel is the speed traffic travels round the site. A site should be a relatively safe environment compared to a housing estate. However, far too many think the 5 mpg does not apply to them. As DK mentioned there are plenty of kids at Clumber at weekends all enjoying themselves. We visit fairly frequently at a weekend prior to setting off on a tour. It is not unusual to see vehicles traveling well in excess of 5 mph, even with children playing in the area.
On top of that a little more supervision would not come amiss. Kids traveling at speed round blind corners, sometimes after dusk, are going to come off worse if they ride straight into a car, even if the vehicle is obeying the speed limit.
No doubt someone will point out this sort of incident is very rare, and I am sure it is. However, I would prefer not to have it on my conscience, even though I would not be at fault.
One final thing, perhaps the club could promote / champion the wearing of cycle helmets on site. Speeds might be low but even a 10 mph closing speed can cause serious head injury. I have not counted but would think less than a third wear them.
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Well, Bunty, you've made a very good case for avoiding sites during school holidays, or for using AO sites.
You'll know what to expect in future and, like others of us, can make alternative arrangements if we wish while the children enjoy being children.
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No, FB, club owed/operated sites are open to all members of all ages. One or two AS may be AO and some CLs.
Mostly it's commercial sites. Look up Tranquil Parks if you're interested.
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Why shouldn't families enjoy caravanning/motorhoming holidays on CMC sites.
Children are just being children and like to play. A concept often forgotten by the pensioners who continually moan on here
Vehicle speed is easily controlled by the warden staff by ensuring that the CMC rules are complied with.
The CMC is an "all inclusive" organisation and long may it remain so.
K
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I'm glad to hear the OP was warned on arrival about speeding on site, especially with regard to children riding bikes. The wardens have obviously assessed the situation and are giving due warning to those adults who don't always heed advice and obey site rules.
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