Non EHU site 289
May I just mention this site being as many offgridders come to these threads. If you are looking for an offgrid within the Lakes you may have rung and not had an answer. That's because the CL has been sold together with the rest of the farm and the phone number in the book has been discontinued. If you are interested in booking the site the number to ring is 07766 385286 and speak to Mark, the previous owner. He is really keen that this site remains open and continues to welcome guests. It has hard standing and although it is a little inundated with weeds, you can still make out easily where it is. It is peaceful with the odd passing car. Views of Little Mell fell which is easily reached - we conquered it- hope no one has removed our flag! Penrith is not far and Ullswater Road Garage there fills Safefill. What more could you want?
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I'm puzzled. So you contact Mark, who no longer owns the site. What happens then? .... does he just tell you where the overgrown site is and suggest that you just use it anyway ???
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We have been caravanning now for 45 years and how things have changed both in the technology and the way we camp. At one time it was difficult to find a site with electric hook ups one used to carry an extra battery to power lights and pumps etc. Now we have solar panels, LED lighting, low wattage tv and large leisure batteries giving us plenty of scope to camp off grid.
BUT, to now find pitches on club sites and 5 van sites that do not have EHU is difficult and the price of electric has to be included in the fee (EU law and regulations) so you pay for it whether you use it or not makes a mockery of modern technology. The club magazines run articles/question and answers on the use of solar panels but they don't encourage the use on their sites. I think there are about 10 pitches left on club sites that do not provide EHU.
Our 2 national caravan clubs should be encouraging off grid camping not charging high prices for the use of electricity as they do. Another question, why are we changed more for electric in the summer months when usage is low compared to the winter months when usage is high?
Some may call it progress!
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Casandra, just to clarify a few things. It is not law that electricity has to be charged in with the site fee. It is law that metered electricity cannot be resold for more than it cost the secondary supplier (site owner) and it is also law that a fee cannot be levied in respect of unmetered electricity. However, it is perfectly legal to charge a fee for use of the bollard which is what C&CC and numerous other organisations do.
Why should the two main clubs be encouraging off grid camping? That is surely your personal opinion whereas the clubs are giving the majority of their customers what they want.
Your last point regarding being charged more for electricity in summer than winter puzzles me. We have already covered the issue of charging for electricity and you yourself said it cannot be charged separately. CAMC makes no charge for electricity so you cannot differentiate between summer and winter costs. C&CC levy a fixed charge for use of the bollard and this does not vary throughout the year.
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I agree with TW, I can't see how the two clubs are charging high prices for their electricity. Also in the CCC you have the option (due to catering for tents as well as caravans/MH) of not having EHU.
Is off grid camping the same as wild camping? Serious question
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I think 'off grid' means doing without EHU, Corners, whereas 'wild camping' means doing without sites. That is, pitching in the wild either legally or illegally.
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thanks
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To Tw,
I stand corrected with your explanation re EHU onward sale but in essence it means the same, it is covered by EU law. You are correct we are charged to hire the bollard (pitch fee) and years ago it was always pitch fee (a very low price) PLUS EHU (always a higher price) and were as we are now charged a higher price in summer and lower price in winter.
We as humble members don't know what proportion of the pitch fee covers the cost of electricity but you can bet your bottom dollar it's the biggest portion and pitch fees can be in excess of £13 the cost of electric is in there so where and they always more than the cost of an adult per night!
Yes "off grid" means off the national grid for electricity.
As rightly pointed out our club caters for the majority of its members, certainly not all of them, as I said there are I think now only 10 of our club sites left offering basic pitches with them only having one or two pitches on each site. The C&CC the other club that I am a member of, do offer, on most of its club sites grass pitches without EHU.
Thank you for your views they were interesting and give food for thought. Enjoy you motorhome trips, keep safe.
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I still cannot follow your logic of being charged more in summer than winter.
Pitch fees are higher in summer - that's market forces in line with the whole industry - but not electricity prices. On CAMC sites you do not pay a known cost for electric. On C&CC sites you pay the same cost year round.
I would disagree about electricity costs forming the largest part of pitch fees. That's not logical as other organisations charge in the region of £4 p/n yet you quote pitch fees of £13 p/n. I think the largest part of pitch fees will be eaten up by the general running costs of the site - maintenance costs, wages, water, business rates, waste disposal, gas and electricity. Think about it and it becomes clearer that the electricity used by vanners on pitches is likely only a small part of the total.
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My last and only comment now to you is, do you know how much per day you use on electricity in your home, nothing like £4 per day I suspect. I have been on metered elect pitches in winter and been charged £1:50 per day so £4 is expensive. The pitch fee at Chatsworth house club site peak times (school hols) is £13:40 go look? Using your logic where does the cost per adult go towards then?
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You keep moving the goalposts, Casandra.
Have a good day.
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My last and only comment now to you is, do you know how much per day you use on electricity in your home, nothing like £4 per day.
If they heated a living room with electric all day in addition to lights and cooking I suspect that in Winter £4 a day would be cheap.
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Casandra,
We debated electricity to death here a few days ago, you might want to have a read of it here since you are reraising issues discussed only recently....
I understand, from reading Merve's threads in the "Tips" section that there are off grid sites (presumably part of the CL network?) from £4 a night and these may be of interest to you....?
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Hi Casandra , I don't worry anymore about charges. I don't worry about how much for this and how much for that. I don't even worry about how much gas I use!! Actually, it's irrelevant now that modern technology is here. The CAMC caters for the vast majority of campers who, for one reason or another, choose not to be off grid. The CAMC are happy to charge and the campers are happy to pay. I was happy to pay at one time- only on CLs- with 4 Kids, I always thought Club sites too expensive. But, you are right- EHU is the 'norm' for many many sites both Club sites and CLs throughout the realm. Finding non EHU is becoming a hunt. Hence, the caravan industry continue with their headlong dash to produce vans which are heavily dependent on power - EHU power and so EHU is supplied because it is 'required '. A very accurate description by Bolero Boy- "the CAMC is a holiday business selling pitches" Many of us on these threads have rejected the 'norm' and have decided we want to do our own thing without the support (and cost) of a bollard. We know that we don't need a bollard. Although folk have been off grid in the past, and as you point out, it was more common to find non EHU sites than EHU sites. It is now so easy to be offgrid and have a perfectly comfortable holiday with everything you ever had with EHU. The modern technology we see today has revolutionised our hobby but that knowledge has not, as yet, seeped into the consciousness of the 'standard caravanning public' I know this from my contact with them. When I have spoken to them, and I have spoken to a lot, over the past 4 years about how one can be offgrid now with SPs , Safefill, low watt pumps, lights etc , and save oodles, into the bargain, it is obvious that most of them have no idea of what is now possible- in fact, the reaction is one of amazement, not acceptance. Even non EHUers haven't heard of Safefill!! The EHU rules! And so we happy band of brothers continue to camp and to support the small guy who has a bit of land with no EHUs. We have just returned from the Lake District from the site I mention above having had a fortnight virtually by ourselves in a remote location- No EHU - bliss!! £80- I'd much rather support a small farmer than a multi million pound company- Most suffer with the herding instinct where they have to be with dozens of others and the EHU brings them all together- there is nothing wrong with that - it just ain't our bag- or yours it appears!
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Seems to me that there are two ways of enjoying our hobby. When we bought our Motorhome last year we were encouraged to consider wild camping because it has refillable gas tank, large water and waste capacity and a solar panel. In fact, we seldom need EHU but because it is included in many sites in the U.K. and, for example, with all ACSI sites throughout Europe we connect up out of habit.
The fact is that as our vans have become more comfortable and even luxurious there is a greater need for electricity. If you have an air con unit for example they are quite power hungry. If you can't manage without a microwave you need EHU. TV, satellite etc. are can be big power consumers. Yes, you can overcome this but with quite a large investment in extra batteries, inverter etc. which is not warranted for the very high percentage of occasional campers.
Sorry to disappoint the evangelical off-gridders but you have a minority hobby which is going to become an even smaller minority as vans become even more elaborate. Mains supply will be considered essential for most people who caravan or have a Motorhome (and even many campers) and more sites, including CLs, will be adding EHU.
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I completely agree with you, Hitchglitch. I have no desire to try to convert others to our way of thinking or to extoll the virtues of EHU to the masses. We're all adults and capable of making our own choices. As l've said before, live and let live.
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yes completely agree +1
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and again +1
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Not really AD, actually not at all. I acknowledge that he believes in and has great enthusiasm for his way of camping. I have great enthusiasm for the way I use my caravan, but I would not try to be so 'forceful' in trying to get others to follow my way. Perhaps the posters concerned, were a little bit tired of the preaching and converting manner. Phrases like:
seeped into the consciousness of the 'standard caravanning public'
The EHU rules
Most suffer with the herding instinct where they have to be with dozens of others
Quite an insult there btw, I don't suffer any herding instinct I just like using club sites and EHU, but that is classed as standard, that there is a higher or superior way if only I could see it.
These comments seem to suggest that we who like EHU are being brainwashed or tricked into using EHU. We have not opened our eyes or minds to modern technology we see today has revolutionised our hobby, suggesting that we are ignorant and need help. That we can't make our minds up by ourselves.
Even when we state that is our preference we have phrases - great! - as long as they enjoy it, what the hell? I stand to be corrected but that sort of saying, 'what the hell' could be taken as used to express anger, contempt, or disbelief.
Anyway Merve is a big boy I am sure he can answer by himself. But to answer your point perhaps Merve could let us live and let live with out such comments?
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nor mine.
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Ditto.
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The others have said it all, David.
I stalk nobody but respond to posts that inspire or rile me.
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as my old boss used to say...."theres more than one way to skin a carrot....."....
Hitch, i agree there are a multitude of different ways in which we can all enjoy this great hobby of ours, but rest assured, there will be many, many MHers on aires, stellplatze and sostas all over europe this week where enjoying their hobby wont involve an EHU point.
solar panels, decent batteries and a cheap source of gas will be the order of the day, and these folk will be enjoying ALDE heating (or hot water), satellite TV, and cordon bleu cooking exactly the same as anyone connected to EHU on a campsite.
i will be doing a fair bit of it myself from Monday, but also some stays on sites where i will be using a hookup....as its included.
so no right or wrong way, for me its both ways
IMHO, Merve is just a nice guy who has discovered a different way of enhancing his camping options and, despite me already having plenty of experience of what he describes, i have no problem in him spreading his joy....
however, if this doesnt appeal to someone reading this, or other similar threads, then dont bother to comment as this wont be of much interest.
whether folk like it or not, camping with EHU is currently the default ('standard') choice for most CC members and, as Merve has found the technology to help him find more locations for less outlay, he just wants to share this and, perhaps give others the same knowledge to help broaden their horizons if that's what they want to do.
some wont and some will.....however, lets hope they get to debate/question these options sensibly without any undue bias, especially from those who have no experience of the technology being discussed nor any desire to make use of it.
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"some wont and some will.....however, lets hope they get to debate/question these options sensibly without any undue bias, especially from those who have no experience of the technology being discussed nor any desire to make use of it."
Good point, BB. I'm all in favour of people making decisions without undue bias being heaped upon them. 👍🏻
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