Non EHU site 289
Comments
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"Most of the caravans in the Swift group come with a roof mounted solar panel fitted."
As do many new MHs. Ours is 2011 and has the wiring for a SP but not the panel itself. That demonstrates the move was there 6 years ago.
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Alexandre Edmond Becquerel
Solar panel history. In 1839 Alexandre Edmond Becquerel discovered the photovoltaic effect which explains how electricity can be generated from sunlight. He claimed that “shining light on an electrode submerged in a conductive solution would create an electric current.”Geez, now that's a shocker, I expected the 20th century, not the 19th
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I just love SP's, by November I will have paid the capital cost of the of the house panels then 17 years of tax free profit
Best investment ever. Back on topic, I just like the flexibility of having a panel on the van, if we see a site we like without EHU, great, but that doesn't mean we always use non EHU sites. Its all about location for us.
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you forgot religious studies
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How do you suggest the club helps in this? I can only think of giving people the option of not having EHU
I have made two requests Tinny of the CMHC, to come and do a full exposé of my van, how I live off EHU, the kit available and as many photos as they want. Both times I was promised that someone would get back to me- first time by the Editor and second time by someone on his team. I am still waiting. I agree that SPs are in the showrooms, on new vans and at the shows and the kit for non EHU is available but I think the 'how to' puts many off- they see it as a nice way to keep the battery charged during the winter and that's about all. The Club could have covered themselves in glory a little had they done a 'Full Spread' on the possibilities of Non EHU but it hasn't happened. At least people could be fully informed then to make a decision. Yes, they have had articles in the past with the salubrious title of 'Back to basics' - a title not designed to pull the modern caravaner into it!! I do worry that there are far too many commercial pressures on the club and sponsors that might not like it. All I ask is that people be fully informed- after that- it's up to the individual. Opinions are like bums- everybody has one.
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That's interesting, Merve. Perhaps the club see promoting non-EHU vanning as encouraging people to use CLs, or wild camp, rather than the club sites into which the club has heavily invested in the infrastructure by providing EHU.
As for sponsors, it could work two ways. Think of the revenue that could be generated (sorry, pun) by retailers avertising their off grid equipment.
I suspect C&CC might be more willing.
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You're welcome. It shocked me, so in the 1800's they knew the science but didn't have the technology to use it. Life is full of surprises for us all. Every day is a school day
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I suspect C&CC might be more willing.
As the C&CC have pitches not developed by the addition of EHU they would definitely seem a more likely choice.The only way that CC could promote it is in reference to the Non EHU Cls and the ability to make full use of them. I have no idea exactly how many there are. Certified Locations does not have the option to search for those without EHU but around 400.
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I couldn't agree more. I'm sure there are good commercial reasons why they are giving this a very wide berth! Look, I ran a business so I know that the bottom line is the important bit , however, I do feel, as others do, that the non EHUer is being ill served by the club. I am all for the club (business) making money but as you so rightly say, why should it not work with new sponsors- i.e. - manufacturers of the modern techs etc. After all, the large gas suppliers have had it all their way for so many years- perhaps it's time to think anew and incorporate everyone of the members by searching for new sponsors.
This is not doing bad as a thread being as it was only for information! 😂😂😂😂but it shows a real interest from both sides if I can put it that way!!
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I do feel, as others do, that the non EHUer is being ill served by the club.
Other non EHU users might feel that the club is serving them well by having a CL network on which there are over 400 CLs without EHU.
I might just as well say that the CC is treating me badly as I like to use non facility sites but they insist on putting toilet blocks on some of the non facility sites that I have enjoyed and are not replacing those that are lost preferring instead to build facility sites.
There is very little difference. I don't need a showering facility on sites but pay for it in site fees and so I may as well use it as clean my own shower. Similarly those that use CC sites and don't need EHU may as well plug in as they are paying anyway.
As far as main sites go I presume that C&CC is a better bet for no EHU users?
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"As far as main sites go I presume that C&CC is a better bet for no EHU users?"
In that respect, yes, I think it is, Easy. In other ways I find it restrictive and unnecessarily complicated. For instance, minimum periods of stay when booking and a pricing structure that defies all understanding.
The points you and Merve make demonstrate once again that we are a diverse bunch and that there's no one size fits all with vanning. I suppose it's fair to say that, as long as all types of pitches and sites exist, then there's something for everyone.
Whether the mix is of the right proportions depends on our personal perspective and individual preferences but, for sure, there'll be no satisfying everyone.
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Thank you TW, I'm looking forward to getting back to it!
I can only speak from our own experience, that when buying our first van last Winter we came from knowing lots about camping but nothing about caravans, which were a foreign country to us, and the CMC site seemed an authoritative place to start. Agreed, the equipment is jumping off the shelves when you know where to look. The small section in our local caravan store, White Arches, (not where we bought our van) is useful but doesn't exactly shout too loudly, and the CMC doesn't flag it up well at all - witness the conversations Merve reports with people who are surprised that you actually can survive more than a few minutes away from mains hook-up, and wish they'd realised.
Website: I'd like it if amid the many headings under Advice and Training there was one on using Solar Power, as well as the existing one on how to use EHU. Such information as I did meet seemed to require serious electrical knowledge, which I lack. Once I learned more, and had swapped the old bulbs for LED's, the initial matter of getting a panel and connecting up was remarkably simple, and not the hurdle I'd expected. More, basic, information on the website would have made this less daunting. And I'm motivated to want to find this stuff!
(Decent info on other eco stuff, loo blue etc, on website too, likewise.)Forum: It wasn't until I found Merve's postings under this "How to Save Money" forum section that using solar panels even occurred to us as a serious possibility - we'd seen some on occasional campervans, and things, but assumed it was some sort of accessory to charge a light up or something, & hadn't realised what a difference they could make. It'll be no surprise that we're into Green energy. If there had been a section on Greener Caravanning, I'd have made a beeline for it. Saving money is great, but it's only half the equation, and more and more informed people are taking an interest, and still more need to. (Oops, I'm evangelising!)
So a forum section on Green, or Eco, or whatever, caravanning, would be great.Club Sites: Yes, cheaper non-EHU pitches would be great. But since the majority are still dependent on The Cable, that would mean nights when sites turned people away, so they ain't likely to do that! More availability of options to choose to pay for hook-up or do without would be a useful start.... can't see that catching on too well with the accountants or sponsors, though!
Ever more organisations, like the National Trust, are offering information on how they're making their heritage and other sites greener, using alternative energy, saving water, etc. We've not used many CMC sites yet, and those were mainly in Scotland, but I didn't spot much evidence of this going on. More recycled grey water, more solar panels on the onsite buildings; solar heating for the showers with standard power back-up. (We've used non-club sites in this country where this works perfectly well.)
Such measures would be likely to more than pay their way, too.
Ideally, I'd love to see more places like the superb CL in Oxon where you can try out solar panel use to see how effective it is; again, as a relative newcomers, the image we've perceived is of the CMC still firmly catering for the dinosaur age in this respect.Magazine: again, we've only seen these since last Winter, but our impression is that while there's what feels like an occasional rather condescending nod to these pretty extreme people who will try and use this eccentric solar energy stuff, there's nothing like a regular, informed column discussing matters of going more green.
Many caravanners are, indeed, an ageing population, so there's likely to be more sticking to the accepted ways, I accept. We've only come to it as our ageing joints and energy levels have made tenting at last less practical, and increasing retirement, (we've both been freelance for some years), allows more time for holidays, if not too many expensive ones. But there's a lot of people of our age taking a very active interest in all things ecological, and a growing number of younger people coming into caravans too and the CMC would seem to be missing a trick if it doesn't cater for this audience, and its makeover seems purely cosmetic rather than truly bringing it into the 21st Century.
As has been said, to pick up some new sponsorship from those promoting the new technologies would be great - I too can't help wondering how much the existing sponsors drive the whole thing....
I could go on, but since you kindly asked, these are some things I'd like to see happening.
Best wishes.
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Thankyou, HH, for giving your views in such a well balanced and eloquent way. It's been interesting hearing the story of a relative newbie.
Have you considered putting your views and wish list to CAMC in exactly those tones?
I can fully understand your point of view although I don't share it. We started caravanning in the early 1970s with a van (avatar) that had none of the modern day refinements, as was the norm at that time. It was nearly 20 years before we acquired our first van equipped for use on EHU and the benefits of pitching and simply plugging in were huge and we haven't looked back since. We enjoy using the electric ring of the hob and the microwave and all the other luxurious gadgets by simply plugging in the cable.
As I keep saying, there is room for all types of vanning and I've found your point of view well worth reading.
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That's what I meant when I said 'seeping into the caravaners consciousness " Hedge. I wasn't trying to insult anyone. The fact is whether we like it or not, and you hit the nail on the head when you said that older people tend to stick with what they know. That's just the way it is, all of us elders know that a little confidence is lost as we get older? The club has a big responsibility to try to bring the latest caravan innovations to the members- they have singularly failed to do that. The two articles I have seen over the last 3 years on non EHU have been very low key and certainly with a negative bias. Let's face it, being faced with a completely new way of powering your van after 40 yrs of using the EHU and using a rental cylinder is daunting! - but as you say, it doesn't have to be. Some are motivated and excited by new inventions and some are not. Again, that's just the way it is but I know through contact with caravaners, that there is a huge section who, had they known the full implications and impact of the new technologies, they would have been more than interested. The guys and gals on here are the more motivated as we chat and debate caravan 'things' - we want to know, - most though, are perfectly happy to go away, use their vans and never look beyond that and there is nothing wrong with that but it's always this type of caravanner that I say is gobsmacked when the possibilities are pointed out to them. It 's almost- 'What have I been missing? ' I'm sure one day I will meet one that will say ' I couldn't care less' and that will be fine too!
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I really enjoy your texts merve , i also admire the way you keep telling us all the new information about being off grid : because not everybody knows about solar panels , etc in fact my sister has just had one fitted , so she doesnt have to worry about her battery going flat , keep up the good work , theres new members joining all the time , who wont have a clue (a bit like myself ) and need people like you to tell 'em ! Cheers mrs bc
ps do you know a good 12 v radio? 1 -
Hi bc. Thanks. I'll try to keep up the good work! but as you see, it's very easy to upset some folks and that is never my intention. Perhaps I should use more smileys?
12v radio? Well, any good quality car radio will do the job.Personally, I really love Panasonic kit but other makes are good- LG for instance, or Alpine. Get one with Bluetooth preferably, and a USB port so that you can play any music you have on your phone through your speakers. However, if you are off grid, try to find out the power consumption of the radio you choose, - I understand they can be quite power hungry if you tend to have it on for hours at a time . But, there is a solution. Now, this won't be for everyone but it's a suggestion. I have just acquired a 'myfi' unit from EE. It gives me 64gig a month which is massive, it is on offer at the moment(or was) or there is there 12v plug in (12v socket) which is PAYG (pay as you go) and that can and often does work out cheaper than the mifi unit. The reason I mention this is that you can stream, by Bluetooth, any radio station through your phone (with the right app) to a Bluetooth speaker. You will need to charge your phone and the Bluetooth speaker but it uses milliamps through a USB . There is also Echo dot, from Amazon, which, again, works through the Internet. For £3.99 a month, you can get Amazon music (40,000,000 tracks) and again, stream any music through that to your speaker. It will give you the news, give useful information- it'll even tell you a joke!! Again USB using milliamps. I don't use my radio anymore- I just ask Alexa-( the word that wakes up the echo dot) to play this track or that track and she does or say tracks from Otis Redding or The Who or whoever and it shuffles the tracks and off she goes- really clever- It's all about being as well off offgrid as on! Let us know what you decide and thanks again.😀😀😀
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can fully understand your point of view although I don't share it. We started caravanning in the early 1970s with a van (avatar) that had none of the modern day refinements, as was the norm at that time.
Similar experience. Anybody who caravanned then would be well aware how little battery power was needed at that time and whilst that has increased by the use of electronic control, installed radios and heating pumps the amount of power consumed by lighting has dropped markedly on modern 'vans.
The fact that we used the car for trips to local areas etc was enough to keep the car battery charged and many, like myself, simply connected to the car. I used this method as a sole source of electric power until 1995 when I installed mains electric to run kettle, spot lights, the fridge and a fan heater when required. This was solely because EHU had generally been included in pitch fees on sites. I still connected to the car for main lighting and water pump until my purchase of a new caravan in 2005.
Solar panels on new caravans have become pretty mainstream now. Either as part of the package or an offered accessory. The only reason that it becomes more complicated than that is people wanting to use additional equipment such as hair driers, laptops, larger TVs etc. I doubt that there are many older experienced caravanners that are not aware of the possibilities of solar panels.
What in my opinion makes a large difference at the present is the development of refillable gas. During the summer gas usage on calor might be around £1.70 a day of EHU. In Spring Autumn and Winter when gas heating might be required that is a different matter. I would expect calor to cost as much as £10 a day in Winter to heat the caravan and run the fridge etc. From what I read from Merve and others using refillables this is likely to reduce the cost to more like £3 a day.
This change could have a marked effect for some in the winter particularly with regard to choice of site. Without such a reduction in gas costs, as appears to be available with refillables, using EHU in Winter was a no-brainer in my view with gas being an expensive option even if compared to using a non facility, no EHU grass field.
For those like me who always use main CC sites or commercials the use of refillables holds no attraction. No significant financial benefit and having to refill off site. It would take me over 10 years to recover the outlay.
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Good post HH. This is about how people think now, not how people did things in the past. Views on energy consumption and production have changed and the Club could be moving forward on so many things but isn't. Their latest article on electric cars cars for instance was poor and not up to date, they continue to promote heavy energy use.
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Brue, have to agree with your (and HH's) post.
the club rarely seem to be ahead of the curve, perferring to be reactive (although unbelievably slowly at times....) and not pro-active.
it has no interest at present in raising member awareness to a subject that might well cause them to try non-EHUing as this would, inevitibly, mean it being away from the CC network, and its commensurate income loss.
whilst some might 'give it a go' at CLs, these are still not generating income for the club and, im afraid, this is the main reason the 'club' exists.....not a derogatory comment, merely a fact of todays business life.
CC promotes many 'processes/techniques' for its members within its web pages and magazines but rarely would it sanction an article that might encourage members to consider alternatives to the club offerings.
id like to think that the club had a brief within its 'sites team' that were thinking internally about reducing energy overheads on site (im sure it does) but also that this team might present some more in depth articals about what we, the typical member, could do (should we wish to) to reduce our own requirements.
i realise that 'we' arent in a particularly green hobby (tow cars and MHs) but surely, those who generate their own electric once on site must be 'doing a bit better' (from this perspective) than those who don't....
'every little helps' as they (Tesco) might say....
thanks HH, i really enjoyed your post.
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Hedgehurst - very well put indeed. I remember a few years back a lot of noise about encouraging The David Bellamy Awards (was that the other club) but so little since then when it has become more important to be Greener especially energy wise.
My home solar panels are doing nicely thank you and after a year with Scottish Power I have received a £100 back and had my monthly payment reduced to £25 which is very pleasing. It may have to be increased in winter but probably not by much. The addition of the battery storing solar energy is helping. I don't need to be so stingy with the hot water and I can use the power shower most of the time with water heated by the immersion free.
I definitely think we should be encouraged to use our modern technology - I am now choosing the other club to get my non - hook up pitch discount when there is a choice it's a no brainer.
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Thanks for the various comments on my post. I feared it was turning into an essay!
Writing to the CMC seems good, thanks for that.EasyT, your line about not many older experienced caravanners being unaware of solar, and its now being mainstream, is surely right. As noted, I'm saying it from a newbie's point of view.
Refillable gas - high on the list of things to seriously consider, probably next year now. The ideal would be a practical way of cooking in the van that doesn't use fossil fuel derived gas but that's likely to be a long way ahead.
Maybe I've got a primitively skewed view of what one needs from a caravan, too. Lighting via a gas mantle.... MollysMummy, this time last year we were cheerfully lighting up our ancient camping gaz light, complete with a mantle that's seen around 30 years of annual use, in our tent
(yes, on a safe surface well away from the roof, with plenty of ventilation allowed!)Our van, which we see as luxurious compared to our tents, would probably seem archeological to many here, but it's what we chose for a whole variety of reasons, including its lower drag on the towing car. Towing/driving accommodation round the place isn't a particularly green hobby indeed, but as you rightly say BB, every small move we can make to improve it all adds up.
Lots of constructive things happening on this thread - thanks Merve for starting it!
I'll just add that you reading this here are the informed and interested people who bother to come, and so the more encouraging noises we make about wanting more "off grid" stuff outside our echo chamber, the more useful progress we'll make. Even now there's a huge mass of people who see actually doing anything individually about going greener as quite unnecessary, impractical, likely to delay teatime and things like that, even though they're vaguely aware of it. All strength to you PippaH for your home roof panels - ain't they great?! We've driven both the dishwasher and the washing machine in turn off ours today.
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Just be aware, HH, that because I and others are interested and like to keep up to date with things it does not mean that we necessarily back your call or are likely to make changes ourselves.
There's a world of difference between reading with interest and actually doing something.
However, I will never stand in the way of someone attempting to do things in the way they want providing it's not to the detriment of others. None of us should ever forget there is more than one way of doing things and an individual's choice is not necessarily right or wrong but what suits them best.
Good luck to you.
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